rlz stage 2 cams with turbo??

Jvest

*GET SHOOK*
ok, so i have been reading for awhile and there seems to be alot of argument as to whether or not to run n/a cams on a f/i setup. i would like to get your guys opinion..

motor setup:
jdm b16a
stock bottom end
skunk2 pro series dual valve springs and titanium retainers
supertech valve keepers
AEM tru-time adjustable cam gears
gates racing timing belt
lucas 440 cc injectors
edelbrock pro flo efi fuel rail
skunk2 pro series IM
rc engineering 70 mm throttle body
itr oil pump
p2r thermal TB gasket
hondata thermal IM gasket
walbro 255 lph hp fuel pump
unorthodox racing single belt crank pulley
fidanza 9lb flywheel
KYclutch stage 3 clutch and pressure plate

turbo setup:
full 2.75" intercooler piping
decent size intercooler ( can get specs if your interested)
GSP .57 trim t3/t4 turbo
greddy type s BOV
jvtr log style turbo mani
emusa 38 mm wastegate
GSP 3" downpipe
custom 2" dumptube
theres more but that about covers it if you have any direct questions just ask :D

ok so i have a set of rlz engineering stage 2 camshafts that i would like to run,
with that being said these are n/a cams
now "supposedly" these cams have outperformed skunk2 stage 2 in mid range and jun stage 3 in high range.
i have seen alot of people say this but i couldnt find any actual reference.
i have also read that these cams were engineered and proven to be a very streetable cam.
so my question is do you guys have any experience with either using these cams, or running n/a cams in a turbo b series??
the cam specs are not released to the public but after a lot of trouble i finally got specs from rlz engineering
cams specs are as follows

RLZ ENGINEERING STAGE 2 CAMSHAFTS

intake
lift .490"
adv. duration 278
duration @ .050 238

exhaust
lift .450
adv. duration 284
duration @ .050 240

so do you guys thnk these will be a good cams for my setup?
also wondering as to whether to start out with cams to 0*/0*, or with intake to 2* and exhaust at 0*
i asked the guys at rlz if i should run with stock valve lash and never recieved a reply :(

will be tuned on eCtune
this is a dd as well as a weekend track car.
will be running ~8 psi on the street on drag radials
and up to ~12 psi on the strip (1/4 mile) on slicks
would love to have everyones opinion on these matters as the more info i can soak up the better :D
its always good to have as many opinions as possible!!
 
Last edited:

Jvest

*GET SHOOK*
EDIT:I WENT AND SEARCHED SOME MORE AND I WAS WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING..:oops:
they are *supposedly* supposed to outperform the TODA spec B in midrange and JUN stage 3 in high range** not the skunk 2 pro 2's
i had already searched a bunch of specs before i realized this but i am just gonna post them for reference anyway


here are the skunk2 "tuner" series stage 2 cams

Intake Lift Adv. Dur.@.004" @.050"
Primary .375" 317° 199°
VTEC .500" 364° 262°
Secondary .405" 319° 215°

Exhaust Lift Adv. Dur.@.004" @.050"
Primary .374" 326° 214°
VTEC .469" 329° 260°
Secondary .374" 308° 195°

skunk 2 pro series stage 2 cams

Intake Lift Adv. Dur.@.004" @.050"
Primary .376" 265° 203°
VTEC .493" 302° 258°
Secondary .406" 270° 213°

Exhaust Lift Adv. Dur.@.004" @.050"
Primary .375" 272° 213°
VTEC .458" 312° 265°
Secondary .374" 270° 213°

here is a list of bunch of different cam specs including toda spec B
Type:
Intake Lift:
Intake Duration:
Exhaust Lift:
Exhaust Duration:



Crower 63400
10.72 mm
234 @ 1mm
9.60 mm
234 @ 1mm



Crower 63401
11.38 mm
249 @ 1mm
10.54 mm
240 @ 1mm



Crower 63401T
11.81 mm
230 @ 1mm
11.30 mm
226 @ 1mm



Crower 63402
11.84 mm
258 @ 1mm
11.84 mm
251 @ 1mm



Crower 63402A
11.84 mm
267 @ 1mm
11.84 mm
239 @ 1mm



Crower 63403
12.04 mm
267 @ 1mm
11.84 mm
257 @ 1mm



Crower 63411T
11.81 mm
230 @1mm
11.30 mm
226 @1mm




Crower 63412

11.83 mm

248@ 1mm

11.81 mm

240@ 1mm







Crower 63413

11.98 mm

257 @ 1mm

11.84 mm

246 @ 1mm







JDM Civic Type R

11.5mm

243 @ 1mm

10.5 mm

235 @ 1mm







JDM Integra Type R

11.5 mm

240 @ 1mm

10.5 mm

235 @ 1mm







Jun Type 1

10.9 mm

265.3 @ 1mm

10.0 mm

268 @ 1mm







Jun Type 2

12.0 mm

266.6 @ 1mm

10.0 mm

268 @ 1mm







Jun Type 3

12.0 mm

265.3 @ 1mm

11.5 mm

265.3 @ 1mm







Skunk2 Stage 1

11.58 mm

252 @ 1mm

10.9 mm

249 @ 1mm







Skunk2 Stage 2

12.3 mm

266 @ 1mm

11.8 mm

262 @ 1mm







Skunk2 Stage 3

12.8 mm

273 @ 1mm

11.5 mm

273 @ 1mm







Spoon Sports

11.53 mm

256 @ 1mm

11.13 mm

245 @ 1mm







Toda Spec A

11.6 mm

250 @ 1mm

11.2mm

240 @ 1mm







Toda Spec B

12 mm

255 @ 1mm

12.5 mm

255 @ 1mm







Toda Spec C

12.5 mm

255 @ 1mm

12.5 mm

255 @ 1mm
 

Jvest

*GET SHOOK*
here is some more informative cam references


A. Beginner's Understanding of Basic Camshaft Terms:


1. Before We Start - 2 Goals You Must Know: 1. What is the PEAK WHP you are trying to achieve? AND 2. Where Do You Want The Power Gain To Be Along the RPMs (POWERBAND LOCATION) ?



HOW DO THE CAM'S SPECS (LIFT, DURATION, OVERLAP or LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE, FLANK STEEPNESS) CHANGE THE POWERBAND OR TORQUE CURVE?


Before you start selecting cams, you may want to first decide where you want your powerband to be. Do you want to gain power in the upper rpm range ( ie. from 5500 to 7200 rpm in a B18A/B and from 6000-8100 rpm in a B18C) or do you want the gain to be more in the midrange from 3500-6000 rpm? Remember that low rod ratio engines, like in our stock Integras, already make more power in the low to mid rpms compared to the higher rpms simply determined by the engine's piston geometry.



This section is based on some lectures from Crane Cams and can help clear up some ideas about selecting cam specs for your engine package. Do you want more duration? Do you want more lift? Do you want a smaller LSA (more
overlap)? How much of each? and Why?


--------------------------------------------------------------------


Legend for Figures Below: The red lines are comparing hp vs rpm. The green
lines are comparing torque vs rpm.


--------------------------------------------------------------------


2. Increase Cam Duration (i.e. How Long the Valve is Open):

Moves or shifts the peak torque and peak hp location to a higher rpm. The absolute peak torque and peak hp number also increases.



Cam duration comparison: the aftermarket cam with 20 degrees more duration has lines with no dots. Lift and LSA are identical. Twenty degrees more duration moves the torque peak up in the rpm range by 1000 rpm (i.e. peak torque occurs later) . With 20 degrees less duration, both peak horsepower and peak torque drop.

3. Increase Cam Lift (i.e. How Much the Valve Lifts Off or Opens From Its Seat):

Higher lift gives a higher absolute peak torque and peak hp number.




Cam lift comparison: the cam with 0.200" (5 mm) more lift has lines with no dots. The duration and LSA are identical. Notice how the torque starts out equal at lower rpm, but the overall torque and horsepower are hurt by less lift, a sure sign of an engine that isn't getting enough mixture at higher rpm.


The ideal amount of lift for the desired powerband location is also affected by the size of the intake/IM runner, size and number of the intake valves, and the amount the intake valves are "deshrouded" from the combustion chamber's wall. Lift can be further increased proportionally by changing the rocker arm ratio without having to change the cam's lift spec.


4. Tighten Lobe Separation Angle (Increase Cam Overlap):
Gives more peak hp but less low end torque.



4 a) Lobe Separation Angle (LSA) Definition:


This is the angle between the intake and exhaust camshaft lobe peaks described in camshaft degrees. This angle dictates two important events: the valve overlap around TDC and how much intake or exhaust valve closure delay there is (see Engine Package I Article for more details on LSA).


Tightening the lobe separation angle (making the LSA value smaller)produces more overlap around TDC. Widening the lobe separation angle (making the LSA value bigger) results in less overlap.



4 b) Overlap Definition:

The amount of time, expressed in crankshaft degrees, that describes the window of time between the the Intake Cam's opening point BTDC and the Exhaust Cam's closing point ATDC (i.e. the brief time when both intake & exhaust valves are partially open simultaneously).


Increasing the degrees of overlap tends to move the powerband up the RPM range. Increasing the overlap can increase peak power, but only if the exhaust system is properly designed and sized to scavenge the cylinder. Decreasing the overlap tends to improve lower rpm range performance.


Overlap can be increased in 2 ways independently:

- Increasing the Duration of the Cam (without changing the LSA)
- Reducing or Tightening the LSA (without changing the Duration)



Affects of Changing LSA: Compare the cam with a bigger 116 degrees lobe separation (lines with no dots) with one having a 106-degree separation (with dots). The smaller LSA cam produces more peak horsepower but with a loss of low-end torque. Smaller or tighter LSA is better for a drag engine than a street machine, due to an increase in valve overlap. LSA can also be slightly increased or decreased by changing the aftermarket adjustable cam gears settings, when you dyno tune.




5. Tailoring the Cam Specs for the Powerband Location You Want: Changing the Duration Spec and LSA's :
(from http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcraf...camshaft/3.htm )


- Short duration with a wide lobe separation angle might be best for towing, producing a strong, smooth low-end torque curve.


- Long duration with a short separation angle might be suited for high-rpm drag racing, with a high-end, sharp torque peak.


- Moderate duration with wide separation angle might be best suited for an all-around street performance engine, producing a longer, smoother torque band that can still breathe well at higher RPM.



Remember, there's always a compromise made when you select your cam specs in N/A engines. You gain hp/torque at one end of the rpms but lose it at the oppsite end.




6. Why Duration and Lift Doesn't Tell Everything About the Cam's Performance Potential ?

Lift & duration don't tell the whole picture. Here's 2 cams (red line and dotted line) with the exact same lift & duration. This is the effect of cam ramp angle that can be measured with a cam doctor (blue shaded in area):



it's the area under the valve lift curve (AUC) that's the major factor overall. AUC combines the effects of lift, duration, and ramp. This what makes some cams with lower specs perform better. The intake valve slams open faster to give a better AUC than a longer duration/lift cam and doesn't sacrifice ABDC and the need for static CR changes to compensate for the reversion loss.



7. When Do I Want To Switch To Roller Cams With Roller Rockers Instead of Standard Honda Cams and Rockers?:


Consider using a Roller Cam and Roller Rockers.....


- when engine stress levels are high.



- when competition requires valve opening and closing velocities faster than a standard rocker can provide, especially with higher
redlines > 9,500 rpms.



- when you simply must have that extra level of performance, but can't sacrifice emissions or low-end drivability.


The N/A Integras like high lift, long duration, big overlap (tight LSA) cams. The forced-induced Integras like high lift, short duration, short overlap (wide LSA) cams. In contrast, the B16A VTEC Civics like high lift, short duration, short overlap cams, due to the B16A's differences in cylinder filling characteristics compared to the Integras which is associated with the B16A's higher rod ratio.



B. Anytime you upgrade cams you should do 4 things:



1. change to the valvesprings that were proven not to coil bind at the cam's max. lift on a Spintron test but not go overly stiff to create excessively high valve seat pressures (stock 40 lb., Toda valvesprings 50 lb., max. acceptable range is 70-90 lb. at 33.66 mm installed valvespring height) causing wear.


if you don't upgrade the valvesprings, even though the company says it's ok to use the stock ones, you still will see mild valve float. Mild valve float is not catastrophic compared to severe valve float or coil binding. But you know what valve float is right? The spring has fatigued at high rpm and loses it's ability to control the rate at which the valve closes against the seat. The valveface slams shut against the seat and transfers this shock or load up the valve stem to the rocker arm and then to the camshaft lobe-rocker arm interface. You get extra wear-related damage and possibly structural fatigue at the valve seat, valveface, rocker arm lobe, valvespring retainer, and cam lobe. Valve float can be identified on a chassis dynosheet as a sudden very sharp or steep drop in hp (in the order of 5% [7-10 whp] or more) at the last 500-600 rpm before the redline.


2. ensure that valvespring installed height is stock (1.320-1.325 in. or 33.53-33.66 mm) and check that the lost motion devices (for VTEC cams) are all present.


3. use assembly lube on the cams during install and do the proper oil change maintenance schedule.


4. Ensure the install is at TDC throughout including the timing belt install. Use a new timing belt or a stronger aftermarket belt, if the mileage (every 40-60,000 miles) or camshaft/application (Toda Spec B,C,D, Killer, or Jun Type 3, or race engine) warrants it. If you can, have the cams degreed. Ensure that the valve lash was set to the camshaft manufacturer's specs, the cam gears & cam journals were oriented and torqued down correctly using Honda's or the manufacturer's specs, and the timing belt is tensioned correctly (no flapping).



C. What's with the different Duration Specs?:


1. "Advertised duration" is the duration @ 0.015 in., 0.020 in., or 0.030 in. valve lift (i.e. whatever the cam manufacturer wants to quote for duration at the lowest readable valve lift on the camshaft degree wheel when they degree the cams on install).


The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) chose this as their standard reference for when to measure duration . It is easier to read the dial indicator and cam degree wheel (when you degree your cams) at 0.015-0.030 in. than at the very start of when the valve starts to lift. So the engineers chose the lowest valve lift point to take a cam reading that was also the easiest to read.


Other Standardized Valve Lift Points to Read Duration Spec from:


2. Domestic V8 cam manufacturers reported their cam duration @ 0.050 in. valve lift. This has been their standard.


3. Japanese cam manufacturers report their cam duration @ 0.04 in. (or @1mm).



The lower the lift from which the duration is taken, the bigger the number for duration.
 

Jvest

*GET SHOOK*
So there are 3 standards from which any person can list their duration specs. To compare between different cam manufacturers' profiles, howver, you must find the duration spec @ the same lift. Obviously, advertised duration sounds the best for marketing hype because it is the largest duration number of the 3 standards. Remember this fact and don't get fooled by a sales pitch quoting no reference lift. If there is no reference lift for the duration spec, you have to assume that it is "advertised duration" and not. When you shop between cams from different brands, make sure you use the or 0.04 in. or 0.05 in. lift quote for duration to compare apples to apples between them. A "300 degree duration" may not automatically it is bigger than a cam quoted as 270 duration @ 0.05 in. Compare using the same standard quoted lift.


Bottomline: Be careful when you read and compare duration specs between 2 different cam makers...make sure they are using the same lift reference point for the duration spec.



D. Some Rarely Known , Advanced Camshaft Tech Terms:


These terms deal more with the rate at which the camshaft accelerates your valve opening and closing. Manufacturers rarely will divulge these aspects of camshaft ramp speed unless you ask them when comparison shopping.:


1. Camshaft Major Intensity - is defined as the difference between the camshaft advertised duration (valve lift @ 0.020 in.) from the cam's duration @ 0.050 in. valvelift duration. It is an estimate of the cam's ramp. The smaller the number the steeper the ramp and therefore a more aggressive cam that snaps the valve open faster and closes it faster off the flank of the cam lobe.


It is an indication of the steepness of the ramp indirectly. A number that is too low can mean an excessively steep ramp and can be harmful to the valve seat itself. The lower the number the faster the valve slams onto the seat. The accepted number for major intensity is one that is > 32 degrees.


2. Camshaft Limit Speed - is the speed beyond which the valvetrain can't be turned any faster.This maximum should be much higher than your redline.



3. RPM Bounce- each camshaft spec will induce significant valve face bounce off the valve seat at a certain rpm. This spec should be much higher than your redline.



Now let's get on with the spec comparisons between VTEC cams for the Integra...


4. Custom Camshafts - camshaft makers can grind you a custom lobe spec but require you to provide them with the bore, stroke, rod length, static CR, injector size, powerband location (rpm range where you want your peak torque to reside), and port flow capacity numbers (not just peak flow but also your flow rates at various valve lifts).

E. Valvespring Install Considerations and Checks

Please read this link to familiarize yourself with the terms used to select the proper valvespring for your cams (i.e. installed height, seat opening & closing pressures, coil binding height, retainer to oil seal clearance, retainer to guide clearance, rocker to retainer clearance):

http://cranecams.com/?show=faq&id=5

From Larry Carley's Informative Articles:

" When installing performance valve springs, pay close attention to the installed height.

This ensures that the springs have the required pressure to keep the valves shut. Height is checked by measuring the distance between the spring seat in the head and the retainer on the valve stem.

Most performance valve springs are closely matched but, if adjustments are needed, it can be done by shimming the valves to equalize pressures.

Shims are made of hardened steel, come in various thicknesses and are usually serrated on one side to prevent rotation (the serrated side faces the head). The thicker the shim, the more it increases spring pressure. Don't overshim, though, because doing so may lead to coil bind with a high-lift cam or rocker arms.

The spacing between the spring coils must also be checked with the valves at full lift to make sure the springs do not bind. High lift cams and/or rocker arms push the valves open more, so it's important to make sure there's still some room between the coils at maximum lift. This can be done by inserting a feeler gauge between the coils. A minimum clearance of .060 inch is usually recommended."


F. Proper Cam Break-In Procedure :

2000 rpm , 20 min. (lather cams with molybdenum based assembly lube on install).

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/cam1.htm

The initial higher rpms (eg. 2000 rpm for 20-30 min) that is varied up and down is done to minimize wear on the nose of the cam lobe at first usage and to circulate more oil to the rockers/cam lobe. If the engine does not fire up on the first couple of cranks, do not continue to try to turn it over with multiple attempts as this will cause extreme wear and scoring on your new cams. Locate the cause of the non-start up problem instead immediately.
Attached Images
File Type: gif duration.gif (3.1 KB, 9045 views)
File Type: gif lift.gif (3.6 KB, 8945 views)
File Type: gif sepangle.gif (4.4 KB, 8893 views)
File Type: jpg blue.jpg (26.1 KB, 9569 views)
__________________

Quote:
A racing car with plates that challenges the driver.
Extremely fast.
That's the Type R.
Keiichi Tsuchiya

I. For beginners who aren't familiar with what cam lift, duration, and VTEC are, please read these good links first before starting here:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/camshaft.htm

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question562.htm

http://asia.vtec.net/spfeature/vtecimpl/vtec1.html


II. Mild Cam Upgrade: ITR cams


CTR cams differ only with the 1997-1999 ITR cams at the intake VTEC lobe duration ( by only 3 degrees more duration ) and ramp angle..that's it!! The intake max. lift are identical. The exhaust cams for both are identical. :

The 2000-2001 ITR cams are identical to CTR cams.


And yet the 2000-2001 ITR's make identical power to 1997-1999 ITR's!! There's no advantage in getting CTR cams for a B18C. - about 8-10 peak whp gain properly tuned.


III. Moderate Cam Upgrade: Spoon, Toda Spec A, Crower 63402/403 cams, Skunk2 Stage 1, Crane Standard Follower, Zex 57200.


Do not need compression increase but an increase will help gain more from the cams.Use JDM style 2.5 in. collector header. about 15-20 whp properly tuned.


IV. Aggressive/Extreme Cams: Toda Spec B/C, Jun Type 3, Skunk2 Stage 2 or Stage 3, Crower 63412 or 63413, and Zex 57300.


Needs valvesprings upgraded, compression increase , JDM style long primaries with 2.5 in. collector header, and ECU reprogramming. about 22-25+ whp gain, if properly combined in a package and tuned.



V. Very interesting but unknown performance wise:

Crane and Ferrea partnered to make Crane Roller Follower cam 253-0514 with Crane Roller Rockers 253-0805 (also known as RR1000 Roller Rockers) which are made by Ferrea . Hytech sells their own line of roller race cams as well but chose not to divulge their specs to me.


VI. Cam Specs:



The Honda cam has 3 lobes per cylinder: The two
staggered primary non-VTEC lobes flank the middle bigger VTEC lobe.

Quote:

by Jack Yamaguchi at Automotive Engineering on the first street VTEC cam on a JDM b16A in 1988


(Moderator's note: When Jack speaks of cams in this quote, he is referring to the individual cam lobes on a VTEC cam.)


There are three cams and three rockers per pair of valves. The cams have different profiles and lift amounts. On either side are "primary" or low-to-mid-speed cams, flanking the lone "secondary" or high-speed cam. Obviously the secondary power cams have a wider opening period and a higher lift: a 90 (degree) overlap and a 10-mm lift,which is indeed similar to those of a Group A racing Civic.



The primary valves have milder timings and smaller lifts, the latter 8 mm and 5 mm. One of these primary cams, the 8-mm lift one, operates it's intake valve first via rocker arm, letting mixtures in and generating swirl motion. The other 5-mm lift primary cam-valve combination follows 10 (degrees) later, further filling the combustion chamber.



While the primary cams are opening and closing the valves, the center cam and rocker are turning and moving, but are disengaged from operating the valves. At higher rpm and higher (engine) load conditions, a hydraulically operated piston pushes in a two-piece pin interconnecting the three rocker arms in unison, which are now operated by the center power cam that opens the valves longer and lifts them higher for producing more power. Interconnection of the three rocker arms is controlled by an ECU that gathers signals on engine rpm, load, vehicle speed, water temperature, and other relevant data.



The switchover between the primary and secondary cam operations is variable, dependent on load and rpm. For example, with intake manifold vacuum of -20 mmHg, the secondary power cam comes on at 4800 rpm, with -100 mmHg at 5000, and optimum -300 mmHg load at 5200 rpm. Anything below, the primary low and mid-range cams produce ample torque and tractable power.
 


Spawne32

Shut up baby, I know it!
just call derek at ddtech tuning he can explain what cams will work best with your setup
225-384-1441
 

Jvest

*GET SHOOK*
Ok thanks.
I'm kinda searching around to see what everyones opinions are on using n/a cams on a turbo motor. I'll give him a call tho. Never hurts to gain a little knowledge.
 

Spawne32

Shut up baby, I know it!
the problem with N/A cams is the overlap, when you overlap both cams alot like in NA setups, you make the boost pressure coming from the intake manifold shoot out the exhaust valve which is still slightly open as the intake valve opens. Thats why if you look at forced induction cams, you will see the overlap is much less compared to NA drag cams.
 


Jvest

*GET SHOOK*
the problem with N/A cams is the overlap, when you overlap both cams alot like in NA setups, you make the boost pressure coming from the intake manifold shoot out the exhaust valve which is still slightly open as the intake valve opens. Thats why if you look at forced induction cams, you will see the overlap is much less compared to NA drag cams.
yea i understand that. thats why i was wondering about advancing the intake cam 2* and maybe even retarding the exhaust cam 2*. as i said i will be tuning it with ectune so i will be running my own ignition tables anyway. once i get a good base i can get some dyno time in and get it all lined out.

as they arent overly aggresive cams do u think its going to be that much of a difference?

with the skunk 2 springs and retainers the valve shouldnt have any trouble staying closed as long as everything is set right. the only thing i cant figure out is whether to start with cams set to 0*/0* with base timing at 16.5 and go from there with a 1.25* ignition retard per PSI just for starters to be safe.

one more thing...
does anyone know how to convert these specs
rlz stage 2
intake
lift .490"
adv. duration 278
duration @ .050 238

exhaust
lift .450
adv. duration 284
duration @ .050 240

TO THESE specs

Jun Type 3

12.0 mm

265.3 @ 1mm

11.5 mm

265.3 @ 1mm


according to the article posted all the foreign cams are in metric and the rlz camz are measured like a small block chevy would be lol.
so does any know the math to convert the rlz cam specs to metric ????

any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED

EDIT: OK, so i think i have part of it figured out (please dont quote me i suck at math lol)
keep in mind this is only for the LIFT

rlz intake cam
0.490"
jun intake cam
12.0 mm


so by using a unit converter i came up with
0.490" equals 12.466 mm
so the intake cam is bigger by .466mm than the jun cam
is this right so far???

using the same thing
0.45" equals 11.43 mm
so the exhaust cam is smaller by.07 mm

please correct me if im wrong..
also i STILL dont know how to figure out the duration or advance duration so if someone can help i would really appreciate it
thanks!
 
Last edited:

Spawne32

Shut up baby, I know it!
rlz stage 2
intake
lift 12.446mm
adv. duration 278
duration @ .050 238

exhaust
lift 11.43mm
adv. duration 284
duration @ .050 240

the durations are still being measured the same, its just converted from inches to mm, so your duration @ .050 is the same as saying your duration @ 1mm
 

Spawne32

Shut up baby, I know it!
yea i understand that. thats why i was wondering about advancing the intake cam 2* and maybe even retarding the exhaust cam 2*. as i said i will be tuning it with ectune so i will be running my own ignition tables anyway. once i get a good base i can get some dyno time in and get it all lined out.

as they arent overly aggresive cams do u think its going to be that much of a difference?

with the skunk 2 springs and retainers the valve shouldnt have any trouble staying closed as long as everything is set right. the only thing i cant figure out is whether to start with cams set to 0*/0* with base timing at 16.5 and go from there with a 1.25* ignition retard per PSI just for starters to be safe.

thanks!
I think, you dont know enough about cams to be making big decisions like this lol your only looking at one aspect of the specification as far as i can tell. Lift and duration are not the only factors when it comes to decided which cams would be best for your application. I see no mention of lobe separation angle on any of these cams, which will play a very large part on how much you gain when using these cams with boost. One thing i can tell you is that you always start at 0* first, and then adjust accordingly to see if you gain any power once you are on the dyno.
 

DaddyBuiltRacing

Resident Asshole
Why even bother with aftermarket cams? Use stock ITR cams and call it a day. They are known to make up to 700-800whp and idle like stock....if I were to go aftermarket cam over my ITR's it would be Skunk2 Pro 1's. Jeff Evans (well known tuner) has shown gains of 60-70hp at the same boost levels over ITR cams. Outside of that its a waste of money.

What are your power goals? I would say they can't be that high considering your running a log manifold and 440cc injectors. I would say you will be struggling to make 300whp with that setup, there fore stock B16 cams would work just fine for you. Save the money and spend it on something else like bigger injectors cause your gonna get bored with power levels real quick, trust me boost is an addiction you'll end up wanting more
 

Tam4511

CI BOOST FIEND
Why even bother with aftermarket cams? Use stock ITR cams and call it a day. They are known to make up to 700-800whp and idle like stock....if I were to go aftermarket cam over my ITR's it would be Skunk2 Pro 1's. Jeff Evans (well known tuner) has shown gains of 60-70hp at the same boost levels over ITR cams. Outside of that its a waste of money.

What are your power goals? I would say they can't be that high considering your running a log manifold and 440cc injectors. I would say you will be struggling to make 300whp with that setup, there fore stock B16 cams would work just fine for you. Save the money and spend it on something else like bigger injectors cause your gonna get bored with power levels real quick, trust me boost is an addiction you'll end up wanting more
what if your running a ls head?
 

DaddyBuiltRacing

Resident Asshole
Stock LS cams...unless your trying to make more power then that then I would go with Brian Crower. LS heads are really limited with cam selection, thus the reason most people tend to go LS/Vtec or just boost a Vtec motor from the get go, or plan to make smaller numbers with an LS.

You can make over 300whp with stock LS cams, what the actual limits are I do not know honestly. I personally made 302whp on stock LS cams (13psi) on a similar setup to the OP. The biggest limiting factor for the OP is going to be those injectors

I would also ditch that single belt crank pulley, those type of units are known to kill bearings. And the 9lb flywheel is a little light for a boosted setup, but not my car so can't really tell you how to build yours lol
 
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