gsr_nikhil
Member
Yes. The bottom one
Muckman’s High Compression Super Build
Muckman
Not a M0derator
In 2012 I upgraded from ID1000 to Bosch EV14 1600cc injectors.
Injector Dynamics ID1000s are great but I maxed them out in 2011 at 500whp on E85. The ID2000s are absurdly expensive and they do not offer a size in between – I think they do now but not back then. I decided to try injectors from FiveOMotorsports. They offered injectors that used the same brand and body style as ID but at a fraction of the cost. I went with their 1600cc/154lbs EV14 “Asphalt series” injectors.
They are Bosch EV14 body with USCAR EV6 connector (same as ID). The tops are 11mm Bosch size which requires an adapter hat to fit a 14mm Honda fuel rail. I hate adapters so I run an Edelbrock fuel rail in the Bosch size (P/N: 4797). I prefer the EV6 connector over the older EV1 connector (aka OBD1 style in the Honda world) because its smaller and nicer.
I still need to pass state inspections which consists of an OBD2 Ecu scan. Once a year I convert my entire programmable fuel injection system back to stock so I can run on the stock Ecu with no error codes, set the emission readiness monitors and pass inspection. This requires that I am able to easily swap in my stock injectors [and other stock sensors]. And since I hate adapters I decided to create a modular injector sub harness for both injectors.
This is a Deutsch DTM 8 way connector that I will use to plug in both my EV14 and EV1 injector sub harnesses. I found a close spot to mount it on the master brake booster.
Trying out various routing paths for the wiring. I want to minimize the wires but still be easily serviceable.
Finished EV14 sub harness
How it looks installed
Heres how it looks on the firewall. Nice and clean, easily serviceable.
And here’s my EV1 subharness that I use once a year. And yes I have to swap fuel rails to fit the stock Honda injectors.
For anyone who wants to convert OBD1 to OBD2 style Honda connectors, the only difference is the tab on the side of the injector is a little thicker on OBD2 injectors. You can easily trim this down with a Dremel or knife and your OBD2 injectors will plug into OBD1 EV1 connectors. Just look at where the connector is hitting on the injector and make it fit, the difference is minimal.
Injector Dynamics ID1000s are great but I maxed them out in 2011 at 500whp on E85. The ID2000s are absurdly expensive and they do not offer a size in between – I think they do now but not back then. I decided to try injectors from FiveOMotorsports. They offered injectors that used the same brand and body style as ID but at a fraction of the cost. I went with their 1600cc/154lbs EV14 “Asphalt series” injectors.
They are Bosch EV14 body with USCAR EV6 connector (same as ID). The tops are 11mm Bosch size which requires an adapter hat to fit a 14mm Honda fuel rail. I hate adapters so I run an Edelbrock fuel rail in the Bosch size (P/N: 4797). I prefer the EV6 connector over the older EV1 connector (aka OBD1 style in the Honda world) because its smaller and nicer.
I still need to pass state inspections which consists of an OBD2 Ecu scan. Once a year I convert my entire programmable fuel injection system back to stock so I can run on the stock Ecu with no error codes, set the emission readiness monitors and pass inspection. This requires that I am able to easily swap in my stock injectors [and other stock sensors]. And since I hate adapters I decided to create a modular injector sub harness for both injectors.
This is a Deutsch DTM 8 way connector that I will use to plug in both my EV14 and EV1 injector sub harnesses. I found a close spot to mount it on the master brake booster.
Trying out various routing paths for the wiring. I want to minimize the wires but still be easily serviceable.
Finished EV14 sub harness
How it looks installed
Heres how it looks on the firewall. Nice and clean, easily serviceable.
And here’s my EV1 subharness that I use once a year. And yes I have to swap fuel rails to fit the stock Honda injectors.
For anyone who wants to convert OBD1 to OBD2 style Honda connectors, the only difference is the tab on the side of the injector is a little thicker on OBD2 injectors. You can easily trim this down with a Dremel or knife and your OBD2 injectors will plug into OBD1 EV1 connectors. Just look at where the connector is hitting on the injector and make it fit, the difference is minimal.
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R13
The other asshole
Really nice :thumbs up
I though about using that mesh stuff to tidy up my bay, I use it all the time when building gaming pc's.
Muckman
Not a M0derator
Great question. Short answer, No.
Long answer, the compression (and displacement really) don’t impact the tune as much as you'd think. The reason is we're not putting any load on the engine, this is all part throttle driving, real gentle stuff. Part throttle/low load has a very large margin of tolerance when it comes to AFR and timing.
Actually I pass inspection with all the turbo hardware still installed and the guys at the shop wonder how the hell that’s possible. Simple - "I’m not boosting dummies. Now pass my car!" Just stay light on the throttle, out of boost and everything is fine.
Actually what really gives me the most trouble is the big cams that I am running because they pull low vac at idle and lope quite a bit. To achieve a stable idle at 900rpm I have timing advanced to 18* and the AFR richened up. But the stock Ecu obviously wants to run stoich and 16* at idle which isn’t conducive to these cams. So I prop up the idle rpm by opening the idle screw. The engine will idle at ~1200 rpm so it's less likely to stall. It’s cheating but it works for the brief time its running on the stock Ecu.
I also have to flush the fuel from E85 to gasoline which is the biggest PITA. I tried to run E85 on the stock ECU/injectors before by cranking the piss out of the fuel pressure to compensate for the lack of injector pulse. I actually got it to drive reasonably OK at 90psi base pressure but my Oxygen and catalyst readiness monitors would never set, even after 50 miles. I can only assume EGTs never got hot enough with Eth for them to trigger. Once I ran gasoline, they set within a mile.
The mesh is great, its flexible, easy to work with and looks professional. Electrical tape is for amateurs.
96LSteg
Jemel
That's good to know!
R13
The other asshole
Couldn't have said it better myself :thumbs up
Muckman
Not a M0derator
This is my crown jewel – a DART GSR head. DART stopped making these bad boys 5 or 6 years ago and they were very expensive. This is pretty much a unicorn.
Dart took new OEM Honda P72 castings and worked their magic.
Full CNC porting on intake and exhaust runners.
The intake valves are +1mm oversized.
The combustion chambers are CNC blended.
Here are the flow specs from Dart.
320cfm @ .500" is bad ass.
Dart took new OEM Honda P72 castings and worked their magic.
Full CNC porting on intake and exhaust runners.
The intake valves are +1mm oversized.
The combustion chambers are CNC blended.
Here are the flow specs from Dart.
320cfm @ .500" is bad ass.
JustinMcGee1
I like Hondas
covert_Con
Senior Ricer
I love shit like this. This is probably going to end up being my favorite build thread. Can't wait to see more!
Muckman
Not a M0derator
I need to measure the volume of the head chamber to get an accurate compression ratio. The concept is simple – pour a measured amount of liquid into the head chamber until it’s filled up. At first I tried to use water but the surface tension created headaches. The water wouldn’t fill in around the top of the valves unless I overfilled the chamber. So I tried using rubbing alcohol and it filled in nicely around the valves.
This is with water showing the surface tension problem. Water would not fill in around the valves. (I later learned a drop of dish soap will break the surface tension)
I could only get the area above the valves to fill in when I overfilled the chamber. This was about 48cc. This is the WRONG way to measure.
I used a 10cc syringe to inject the alcohol and a plate of plexi.
Final volume is 43cc!
This is with water showing the surface tension problem. Water would not fill in around the valves. (I later learned a drop of dish soap will break the surface tension)
I could only get the area above the valves to fill in when I overfilled the chamber. This was about 48cc. This is the WRONG way to measure.
I used a 10cc syringe to inject the alcohol and a plate of plexi.
Final volume is 43cc!
Muckman
Not a M0derator
Checking v2v
*I originally picked the Skunk2 Tuner1 cam for this build but later changed my mind to the new GSC T1 cam. I took the "opportunity" to double my work effort here and check v2v with both cams in case I changed my mind again.
Anytime you are running an aftermarket cam or oversized valves or both especially you want to check valve to valve clearance. This is typically done at 0 valve lash because as your engine heats up the valve lash will decrease so you test with a worst case scenario – 0. Since it’s hard to measure zero clearance I tighten the lash until I feel it hit the cam then back off a tiny amount (near zero). You want to avoid having negative lash where the valve is always being pushed down a tiny bit because the amount of lash will affect the v2v clearance.
Next you need to lock your VTEC rockers because you want to measure the big lobe. There are a couple ways to do this. You can use pressurized air through a service port to pneumatically slide the VTEC pins in place. The system is very leaky which means you need to keep your compressor on constantly. The alternative method is to lock the rocker in place by extending the pins with a BB or small washers.
I used a stack of M4 washers to space out the pins locking the VTEC rocker.
I set it up so only rockers were active in #1 cyl. I used the OEM exhaust valve springs as they are the softest making the cams easier to turn over. Spring pressure is not helpful here, the softer the better.
New cam and cam gears installed
Wrapped an old tbelt around the cam gears and held it tight with vise grips.
Then I set the lash to as close to 0 as I can by hand. I only have 1 valve for each cam installed so the right rocker is idle.
Once the head is setup now is the tedious part. You rotate the cams over until the valves are at their closest point (BDC) measure with a feeler gauge and record it, back off to TDC, adjust one cam gear and retest. Pretty soon you will see a trend develop on the chart where the cam spacing is safe. The “safe” v2v clearance is ~.030”.
Here are the valves at their closest points with cams set to 0/0. .029” Close enough!
The new GSC cam has tons of lift.
Here are the final v2v charts for both cams. Green is the safe zone. Yellow is danger zone. The red is valve contact and catastrophic engine failure.
**My Dart head has a +1mm oversized intake valve making the v2v clearances tighter than a standard valve head. This forces me to separate my cam gears further apart. If you are running either of these cams you can use my charts as a "worst case" clearance guide.
*I originally picked the Skunk2 Tuner1 cam for this build but later changed my mind to the new GSC T1 cam. I took the "opportunity" to double my work effort here and check v2v with both cams in case I changed my mind again.
Anytime you are running an aftermarket cam or oversized valves or both especially you want to check valve to valve clearance. This is typically done at 0 valve lash because as your engine heats up the valve lash will decrease so you test with a worst case scenario – 0. Since it’s hard to measure zero clearance I tighten the lash until I feel it hit the cam then back off a tiny amount (near zero). You want to avoid having negative lash where the valve is always being pushed down a tiny bit because the amount of lash will affect the v2v clearance.
Next you need to lock your VTEC rockers because you want to measure the big lobe. There are a couple ways to do this. You can use pressurized air through a service port to pneumatically slide the VTEC pins in place. The system is very leaky which means you need to keep your compressor on constantly. The alternative method is to lock the rocker in place by extending the pins with a BB or small washers.
I used a stack of M4 washers to space out the pins locking the VTEC rocker.
I set it up so only rockers were active in #1 cyl. I used the OEM exhaust valve springs as they are the softest making the cams easier to turn over. Spring pressure is not helpful here, the softer the better.
New cam and cam gears installed
Wrapped an old tbelt around the cam gears and held it tight with vise grips.
Then I set the lash to as close to 0 as I can by hand. I only have 1 valve for each cam installed so the right rocker is idle.
Once the head is setup now is the tedious part. You rotate the cams over until the valves are at their closest point (BDC) measure with a feeler gauge and record it, back off to TDC, adjust one cam gear and retest. Pretty soon you will see a trend develop on the chart where the cam spacing is safe. The “safe” v2v clearance is ~.030”.
Here are the valves at their closest points with cams set to 0/0. .029” Close enough!
The new GSC cam has tons of lift.
Here are the final v2v charts for both cams. Green is the safe zone. Yellow is danger zone. The red is valve contact and catastrophic engine failure.
**My Dart head has a +1mm oversized intake valve making the v2v clearances tighter than a standard valve head. This forces me to separate my cam gears further apart. If you are running either of these cams you can use my charts as a "worst case" clearance guide.