Honda among many manufacturers warning of the danger of newly mandated E15 gasoline

[eiznekeM]

It is a gigantic scam.
It takes more energy to produce it than you end up saving in the gasoline it replaces.
We burn an incredible amount of corn to make Ethanol, which has increased food prices around the world.
And now it's gonna be hard as hell to stop making it because midwestern states/swing states who make corn for Ethanol get billions of dollars from the Government to do it, including Iowa, a major Primary state, and any politician who declares an end to Ethanol subsidies will have a very hard time winning in Iowa, which is a very big deal in the Presidential election.

There's a reason the private sector didn't turn Ethanol into a major industry on its own.

Boom, perfect dude.

 

[eiznekeM]

The main thing is, what if they say it's E10 and it's actually E15.
Isn't it cheaper too? Gas stations can be sneaky.

I only fuel at top tier fuel places, less likely to get f***ed around. Non-regulated places have uncalibrated machines, s***ty fuel, etc. etc. A little independent gas station in my small town was really the only place to get fuel, but once Esso opened across the road, you bet for damn sure I go there. I get more fuel mileage on the same amount of fuel too.

Edit: Check this site out. Someone posted this on CI before, I'm not sure who though.

Top Tier Gasoline

 

[mohawk42s]

ethanol burns at 60% of the efficiency of gas...once you get tuned for that type of gas your injectors inject 6% more gas into the cylinders
all its doing is making us use more gas for the same power and driving up prices
how fair is that?

 

[nathan_carmona]

The main thing is, what if they say it's E10 and it's actually E15.
Isn't it cheaper too? Gas stations can be sneaky.

considering premium sometimes isnt even a higher octane than regular as it is......:roll:

 

[speedin]

ethanol burns at 60% of the efficiency of gas...once you get tuned for that type of gas your injectors inject 6% more gas into the cylinders
all its doing is making us use more gas for the same power and driving up prices
how fair is that?

Just thought id add... Using E85 I make an additional 25hp and 50 ft-lbs, lower egt's over 100*f, and have a much cleaner stronger engine. Do I use more, sure (17 vs 22mpg), but when you compare the cost of E85 vs premium I actually save $ per gallon (E85 is typically cheaper or the same price as regular, so you can clearly see the price difference vs premium is huge).

I know E85 isnt E10 or E15. And I dont support a full switch to E15, I think there should be a choice at stations. The only cars that will really have issues with a E15 switch are cars that are improperly maintained (not running right) or quite old. And as far as automakers and lobbyist care, if a car is that old they want to put you in a new American car anyway. It really is just a lobbyist / political ploy. But I also want to point out ethanol isnt a bastard fuel that will destroy your car either.

 

[eiznekeM]

Just thought id add... Using E85 I make an additional 25hp and 50 ft-lbs, lower egt's over 100*f, and have a much cleaner stronger engine. Do I use more, sure (17 vs 22mpg), but when you compare the cost of E85 vs premium I actually save $ per gallon (anywhere from 30-50 cents per gallon.

I know E85 isnt E10 or E15. And I dont support a full switch to E15, I think there should be a choice at stations. The only cars that will really have issues with a E15 switch are cars that are improperly maintained (not running right) or quite old. And as far as automakers and lobbyist care, if a car is that old they want to put you in a new American car anyway. It really is just a lobbyist / political ploy. But I also want to point out ethanol isnt a bastard fuel that will destroy your car either.

It may not be bad for the car, but I think the other issues sway me away from it more than the performance aspects.

 

[speedin]

It may not be bad for the car, but I think the other issues sway me away from it more than the performance aspects.

Im not interested in getting into the politics of it, thats why I stayed out of the thread until now.

But thats what I wanted to make clear, the main issue isnt the cars.

 

[eiznekeM]

Im not interested in getting into the politics of it, thats why I stayed out of the thread until now.

But thats what I wanted to make clear, the main issue isnt the cars.

Fair enough. Well, it may not be in a perfectly running car or new ones, but I'd say most cars out on the road are not completely up to snuff, and I don't think a majority of cars are ten years or newer, so I don't think it's good legislation. I mean the auto makers are making a deal out of this, that in itself should mean something.

 

[speedin]

Fair enough. Well, it may not be in a perfectly running car or new ones, but I'd say most cars out on the road are not completely up to snuff, and I don't think a majority of cars are ten years or newer, so I don't think it's good legislation. I mean the auto makers are making a deal out of this, that in itself should mean something.

I think that depends on the area, I can tell you around here the vast majority of cars are newer than 2001. Just think about how long ago 2001 really was. I mean you could still buy a brand new ITR from a dealer.

As far as cars being up to snuff, they wont have to be perfect. But if your car is already running near 100% idc's or at the limits of timing adjustment this could set it over the edge, but to get to that point your doing something really wrong, not just ignoring a tune-up.

The people profiting here are the growers, auto manufactures might get a few sales but not much. Plus they will now have to bump up there component resistance to alcohol fuels in new cars. Not to meet E15, because the lines out there for the last 10 years or so had head room on top of E10 built into them. Now they will have to increase that headroom is all (unless they added enough in the first place, sounds like Honda didnt). So the manufactures are going to have to do some more testing and that means more money, so of course they will b**** a bit. But its not going to take much more component testing, because as I mentioned most have already tested for higher content percentages and they know what E15 will do in there systems. If Honda is really b****ing about this that only means they cheaped out and went for the minimum without a factor of safety built in for E10, now its biting them in the ass. But more than likely the case is that its going to cost them a bit more money in a tight market, so if they can bitch a bit to stop it then why not bitch. But the cars themselves will be fine.

 

[eiznekeM]

I think that depends on the area, I can tell you around here the vast majority of cars are newer than 2001. Just think about how long ago 2001 really was. I mean you could still buy a brand new ITR from a dealer.

As far as cars being up to snuff, they wont have to be perfect. But if your car is already running near 100% idc's or at the limits of timing adjustment this could set it over the edge, but to get to that point your doing something really wrong, not just ignoring a tune-up.

The people profiting here are the growers, auto manufactures might get a few sales but not much. Plus they will now have to bump up there component resistance to alcohol fuels in new cars. Not to meet E15, because the lines out there for the last 10 years or so had head room on top of E10 built into them. Now they will have to increase that headroom is all (unless they added enough in the first place, sounds like Honda didnt). So the manufactures are going to have to do some more testing and that means more money, so of course they will b**** a bit. But its not going to take much more component testing, because as I mentioned most have already tested for higher content percentages and they know what E15 will do in there systems. If Honda is really b****ing about this that only means they cheaped out and went for the minimum without a factor of safety built in for E10, now its biting them in the ass.

Another good point, most around here are 5 and older I'd say. Same with the tune up bit.

I thought no political bits? haha. Anyway, Growers are the only people that really benefit from this though, and it's only people growing specifically for the use of ethanol. As people jump on this and start growing more and more to sell for ethanol because it's more profitable, where do the rest of crops go? It's going to drive up food prices, as the article in the link TegSox posted said, and it's going to destroy environments that are going to be converted to crops to make ethanol or to make up for food crops that have been replaced with corn only. There is no good in Ethanol in my opnion, it is all a massive conspiracy/scam/super-fucking-hyped-up-bullshit-sceme-for-money.

 

[speedin]

Another good point, most around here are 5 and older I'd say. Same with the tune up bit.

I thought no political bits? haha. Anyway, Growers are the only people that really benefit from this though, and it's only people growing specifically for the use of ethanol. As people jump on this and start growing more and more to sell for ethanol because it's more profitable, where do the rest of crops go? It's going to drive up food prices, as the article in the link TegSox posted said, and it's going to destroy environments that are going to be converted to crops to make ethanol or to make up for food crops that have been replaced with corn only. There is no good in Ethanol in my opnion, it is all a massive conspiracy/scam/super-f***ing-hyped-up-bulls***-sceme-for-money.

Yea I was trying to limit the politics to the auto industry with only slight mention elsewhere. But I can see crops being converted with gov back incentives. But ill stop here as it only gets political from here on out, lol.

 

[nathan_carmona]

this is one of the most educated discussion i've ever witnessed on club integra lol and the only people being flamed are politicians... HELL YA!!!!

 

[eiznekeM]

Yea I was trying to limit the politics to the auto industry with only slight mention elsewhere. But I can see crops being converted with gov back incentives. But ill stop here as it only gets political from here on out, lol.

Good little debate .

 

[Cripton805]

Just thought id add... Using E85 I make an additional 25hp and 50 ft-lbs, lower egt's over 100*f, and have a much cleaner stronger engine.

They plan on getting rid of E85 completely.

 

[Cripton805]

considering premium sometimes isnt even a higher octane than regular as it is......:roll:

Going from regular to premium is what our knock sensor is for and why it wouldn't make much of a difference with these fuels

E15 is different than regular or premium... fail on your part for comparing.