Muckman’s High Compression Super Build
Muckman
Not a M0derator
You have to be really involved at this level. Im always shocked when Im talking to kids who dont know the specs of their own built motors. You cant half ass this stuff. Granted most of those measurements are irrelevant when assembling an engine. You need to know what you want when customizing a piston profile.
You like those pins huh? They are heavier than D batteries. I have some more specs on wrist pin I'll post later.
You like those pins huh? They are heavier than D batteries. I have some more specs on wrist pin I'll post later.
Nick_C78
New Member
I am shocked when people don't even know what their valve springs max lift is... It is funny too, my Head is like the pride and joy of my build and clearly you have the same mindset about yours. Your damn dart head makes me feel like mine is scrap metal lol I need to get a proper header and exhaust for me to really allow mine to do work though. It is being heavily choked at the moment.
Damn man. I assume they are all balanced? Do you think that added weight will cause vibrations or are you getting the rotating assembly rebalanced....probably a stupid question lol.
Damn man. I assume they are all balanced? Do you think that added weight will cause vibrations or are you getting the rotating assembly rebalanced....probably a stupid question lol.
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Muckman
Not a M0derator
Oh, coil bind? Wait, so I can’t buy Pro3 cams and just drop em in?! idiots lol
The crank has already been balanced from last year so I wont need to rebalance it. As long as each piston assembly is equal in weight it won’t upset the balance. The parts from the rotating assembly are balanced individually. Aftermarket pistons and rods come balanced from the factory within a few grams so I don’t bother to check. I'll be reusing my Pauter rods which I’ve used for years and I’ve had them checked so I know they are good too.
Good question, I tend to leave a lot of details out because this isn't a total rebuild for me. Im trying to pull it all together to make it into a full build but ask questions if something doesnt make sense.
The crank has already been balanced from last year so I wont need to rebalance it. As long as each piston assembly is equal in weight it won’t upset the balance. The parts from the rotating assembly are balanced individually. Aftermarket pistons and rods come balanced from the factory within a few grams so I don’t bother to check. I'll be reusing my Pauter rods which I’ve used for years and I’ve had them checked so I know they are good too.
Good question, I tend to leave a lot of details out because this isn't a total rebuild for me. Im trying to pull it all together to make it into a full build but ask questions if something doesnt make sense.
Nick_C78
New Member
Yeah man, I think you can use stock B16 valve springs for Pro 3. I read it on the internet somewhere.
Yeah that is actually how I did it with mine too, had it all balanced individually. That way if I ever change something out I don't have to re-balance the entire thing. However, mine is also primarily OEM Parts, so not as drastic as your build. And it is NA.
Well, most people probably just get googly eyed over the pics and see shiny things. I like the technical aspect of it. So feel free to be detailed as much as possible. I know at least 1 person will read it
Yeah that is actually how I did it with mine too, had it all balanced individually. That way if I ever change something out I don't have to re-balance the entire thing. However, mine is also primarily OEM Parts, so not as drastic as your build. And it is NA.
Well, most people probably just get googly eyed over the pics and see shiny things. I like the technical aspect of it. So feel free to be detailed as much as possible. I know at least 1 person will read it
Muckman
Not a M0derator
Last year I ran off the shelf piston - P/N: K594M845. It worked well for me aside from the bent wrist pin.
So we used the K594M845 as a starting point for the dimensions and tweaked from there.
Thats why I detailed all the differences between the K594M845 and my custom HD1 pistons.
So we used the K594M845 as a starting point for the dimensions and tweaked from there.
Thats why I detailed all the differences between the K594M845 and my custom HD1 pistons.
Muckman
Not a M0derator
Got the block back from the machine shop. I’ve had this Benson sleeved block machined 4 or 5 times and every time they tell me the sleeves walk. It’s never been an issue but it has to be a result of the open deck, unsupported sleeve design. However this time they told me the sleeves tilted about .002” but grew about .010” above the deck! He squared them up to the crank and had to mill off about .009 ~ .010” before the sleeves matched the aluminum. Oddly the 2 outer sleeves didn’t stand as proud. It’s almost like it was a stepped deck, but it wasn’t.
I don’t understand how that’s possible but the deck had to be made flat. What sucks is that we had agreed on milling .005" off the deck so I had built the custom pistons with .005” lower compression height to compensate and keep my piston to head clearance the same as last year. To compensate I will need to get a thicker head gasket now.
The cylinders are bored and honed to 3.3445" or 84.95mm with .0040 ~ .0045" piston to wall clearance. I ran .0035" p2w last year without issue for those of you who are keeping track.
The O-ring groove was a b!tch to cut. 85mm bore didn’t leave a lot of room and I told them I didn’t want to rings to overlap if possible. The cutter they had would not fit a bore smaller than 3.5”. He ended up cutting it manually with a square carbide tooth cutter in a Criterion boring head in a Bridgeport mill. The groove is .040" wide and 0.028" deep. The copper wire I will be using is 18 gauge or .0403”.
There is a tiny chip or tooling mark on cylinder #4 intake side. But its on the inside of the ring. I dont think it will be an issue.
I don’t understand how that’s possible but the deck had to be made flat. What sucks is that we had agreed on milling .005" off the deck so I had built the custom pistons with .005” lower compression height to compensate and keep my piston to head clearance the same as last year. To compensate I will need to get a thicker head gasket now.
The cylinders are bored and honed to 3.3445" or 84.95mm with .0040 ~ .0045" piston to wall clearance. I ran .0035" p2w last year without issue for those of you who are keeping track.
The O-ring groove was a b!tch to cut. 85mm bore didn’t leave a lot of room and I told them I didn’t want to rings to overlap if possible. The cutter they had would not fit a bore smaller than 3.5”. He ended up cutting it manually with a square carbide tooth cutter in a Criterion boring head in a Bridgeport mill. The groove is .040" wide and 0.028" deep. The copper wire I will be using is 18 gauge or .0403”.
There is a tiny chip or tooling mark on cylinder #4 intake side. But its on the inside of the ring. I dont think it will be an issue.
Nick_C78
New Member
That block looks sick. That sucks to hear about the deck. Having to mill off .010 after having clearances that precise is no joke. Are you going to go with a Cometic head gasket now? If so, which size are you going to opt for?
Dude, he did those grooves manually? Now that is craftsmanship at its best. I don't think most people can even appreciate what they are seeing. That little chip shouldn't be an issue. Maybe use some copper spray for added safety? I don't see that effecting anything though and it is on the inside of the oring groove.
Dude, he did those grooves manually? Now that is craftsmanship at its best. I don't think most people can even appreciate what they are seeing. That little chip shouldn't be an issue. Maybe use some copper spray for added safety? I don't see that effecting anything though and it is on the inside of the oring groove.
randomhobo
automagic user
I'd like to know how the coil pack conversion goes. Haven't really seen anyone using them yet.
Muckman
Not a M0derator
Cometic MLS is the only choice for thicker head gaskets. I wont know how thick I need until I measure piston to deck height.
What if I told you my machinist was my tuner too? Jack of all trades, master of all trades it seems.
Theres a bunch of guys running the CPR kit over on HT making big power. I haven't read a single negative comment about reliability or capability.
Nick_C78
New Member
Hah I know. But I wondered if you would get some custom spec one or something. Knowing you.
Damn...That is impressive. That is how I want to be one day though too. One stop shop.
Muckman
Not a M0derator
I don’t expect it to be much different than last year. The pistons have a little less dome volume. But the valve seal and valve oil issues have been resolved which will both increase power. I expect maybe 5% gains vs the same boost. I also think we can push a little more from the turbo. It’s clear we are approaching its maximum flow as I’m cranking down the boost controller to maintain boost at redline. But I can probably get another 2-5psi out of it. I'll def be able to hit 600s.
But what I really want to do is spend time tuning the low end. Actually we didn’t spend any time tweaking ignition down low. I’d love to see if we can squeeze any more torque off the low cam. Last year I made 165ft-lbs observed (181ftlbs Std) at 3000rpm. Id be happy to make any gains there. Propping up the low end makes the car feel more NA on low boost and I feel it helps with traction.
I will also degree the cams this year which may make power, or it may not.