powerneedy
New Member
oh and a wide band you have to have one of those or you might as well say bye bye to any motor because it wont matter if its built or not
I think i have everything..
- Thread starter UnderPressure
- Start date
Aussie
Zoom-Zoom
I'm gonna put my 2 cents in I guess. From EXPERIENCE, I have run that much even more boost on a stock LS, yes you can do it. Did I get it tuned not for a while and I didn't have any problems with it, but I like to consider myself the lucky few, I don't think if I would have kept running it like that it would have lasted as long but who knows. I think the major thing I worried about is if the boost spiked, then you would have some problems. I would try it, if you want, but don't get mad if your engine blows, one thing you might do is put a thicker headgasket on to lower the compression that way. Also if your only going to run 10 psi and if you keep 93 octane in it, you should listen to see if its going to ping, you'll know if it is, if so turn the boost down cause its obviously going to be to much.
dc2GS-R
Super Moderator
Datalog, read and LEARN, if you don't know what you are doing, then atleast find someone to analyze datalogs that does know!!!! It's the only way to get a reliable tune without a dyno. Yes, I can tune my own car good but, I use datalogging on ignition timing, a/f ratio's, egt, tps and rpm with an o2 feedback to understand what is going on and what to do. Plus I know what I'm doing.
This is not what you want to do at all!!! ^^ Atleast get something to tune and datalog with.....a well thought out educated guess is better than random gross fuel dumpsUnderPressure said:lotsa air and lotsa fuel and ill be good to go as long as i can keep the boost at 10psi haha
GSROWNSU
New Member
Exactly...that's what i was trying to say before...sorry if i sounded pissed but u gotta do it right man.dc2GS-R said:This is not what you want to do at all!!! ^^ Atleast get something to tune and datalog with.....a well thought out educated guess is better than random gross fuel dumps
UnderPressure
Spoolin'
well, i was gonna go with an afc, but i know a few people around here that didnt dyno tune anything and dont have any problems, i just dont want to spend 600 bucks on hondata and nobody around here even knows what it means....and about the boost thing with the motor, i know a guy who ran 16psi on a stock D SERIES motor and had no problems at all, and it was tuned with an afc....i see that boomslang has a complete plug and play for a afc so mabye going that route would be alot safer than just cranking up the fuel...thanks for the help and input by the way
dc2GS-R
Super Moderator
I wouldn't run 16 psi tuning with an AFC. Remember that AFC controllers work by altering sensor signals before they get to the ECU.
The primary signal being messed with is the Map Sensor. This is very important on a Speed Density car. The Map Sensor is used by the ECU to guess how much air is going into the car, and therefore how much fuel to supply in order to match airflow. When you "lean" out a car with an AFC, you are simply decreasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the decrease in manifold pressure by supplying less fuel. When you "richen" a car with an AFC, you are simply increasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the increase in manifold pressure by supplying more fuel.
The change in fueling happens for a reason: if you look at a fuel table, Map Sensor values correspond with columns. When you increase or decrease the signal from the Map Sensor, you are simply making the ECU use a different column than it originally would have used.
But wait, the Map Sensor is used for determining ignition requirements too! When you "lean" out a car with an AFC, you also advanced ignition timing. When you "richen" a car with a AFC, you will have retarded timing. If looking at the trends horizontally (as MAP changes) on an ignition table, and you can clearly see why this happens and to what extent. This helps explain why so many boosted cars running on the "AFC hack" have issues due to excessive ignition advance.
The bottom line: SAFC's and VAFC's suck because you cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition. Any changes to fueling will produce a change in ignition too, and uncontrolled ignition timing is NOT good at all, especially at 16psi on an open deck engine.
By the time you buy an AFC and boost controller, then try and tune it and it runs like shit and your EGT's are through the roof, then you buy an Ignition Timing controller to try and get the AFC to give you the fuel without screwing with you timing. Then you have 2 piggyback system fighting each other to try and get a decent tune.
I wouldn't try to run 16psi, untuned on an AFC. Especially w/o and Ignition Timing Controller. But for that price of and AFC, ITC and Boost controller, you could buy Hondata to control everything
The primary signal being messed with is the Map Sensor. This is very important on a Speed Density car. The Map Sensor is used by the ECU to guess how much air is going into the car, and therefore how much fuel to supply in order to match airflow. When you "lean" out a car with an AFC, you are simply decreasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the decrease in manifold pressure by supplying less fuel. When you "richen" a car with an AFC, you are simply increasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the increase in manifold pressure by supplying more fuel.
The change in fueling happens for a reason: if you look at a fuel table, Map Sensor values correspond with columns. When you increase or decrease the signal from the Map Sensor, you are simply making the ECU use a different column than it originally would have used.
But wait, the Map Sensor is used for determining ignition requirements too! When you "lean" out a car with an AFC, you also advanced ignition timing. When you "richen" a car with a AFC, you will have retarded timing. If looking at the trends horizontally (as MAP changes) on an ignition table, and you can clearly see why this happens and to what extent. This helps explain why so many boosted cars running on the "AFC hack" have issues due to excessive ignition advance.
The bottom line: SAFC's and VAFC's suck because you cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition. Any changes to fueling will produce a change in ignition too, and uncontrolled ignition timing is NOT good at all, especially at 16psi on an open deck engine.
By the time you buy an AFC and boost controller, then try and tune it and it runs like shit and your EGT's are through the roof, then you buy an Ignition Timing controller to try and get the AFC to give you the fuel without screwing with you timing. Then you have 2 piggyback system fighting each other to try and get a decent tune.
I wouldn't try to run 16psi, untuned on an AFC. Especially w/o and Ignition Timing Controller. But for that price of and AFC, ITC and Boost controller, you could buy Hondata to control everything
UnderPressure
Spoolin'
dc2GS-R said:I wouldn't run 16 psi tuning with an AFC. Remember that AFC controllers work by altering sensor signals before they get to the ECU.
The primary signal being messed with is the Map Sensor. This is very important on a Speed Density car. The Map Sensor is used by the ECU to guess how much air is going into the car, and therefore how much fuel to supply in order to match airflow. When you "lean" out a car with an AFC, you are simply decreasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the decrease in manifold pressure by supplying less fuel. When you "richen" a car with an AFC, you are simply increasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the increase in manifold pressure by supplying more fuel.
The change in fueling happens for a reason: if you look at a fuel table, Map Sensor values correspond with columns. When you increase or decrease the signal from the Map Sensor, you are simply making the ECU use a different column than it originally would have used.
But wait, the Map Sensor is used for determining ignition requirements too! When you "lean" out a car with an AFC, you also advanced ignition timing. When you "richen" a car with a AFC, you will have retarded timing. If looking at the trends horizontally (as MAP changes) on an ignition table, and you can clearly see why this happens and to what extent. This helps explain why so many boosted cars running on the "AFC hack" have issues due to excessive ignition advance.
The bottom line: SAFC's and VAFC's suck because you cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition. Any changes to fueling will produce a change in ignition too, and uncontrolled ignition timing is NOT good at all, especially at 16psi on an open deck engine.
By the time you buy an AFC and boost controller, then try and tune it and it runs like shit and your EGT's are through the roof, then you buy an Ignition Timing controller to try and get the AFC to give you the fuel without screwing with you timing. Then you have 2 piggyback system fighting each other to try and get a decent tune.
I wouldn't try to run 16psi, untuned on an AFC. Especially w/o and Ignition Timing Controller. But for that price of and AFC, ITC and Boost controller, you could buy Hondata to control everything
wow, i didnt even know most of that, thanks for all of this info...i don't want to run over 10psi in it though...and im not sure which hondata system to go with, i was looking at the 300 system but its a little pricey but it basically does anything and everything...but the 100 system looks like it'd do just what i needed it to do....so basically a good tuning system (hondata, crome, etc.) afc? yes or no? a wideband sounds like its a must for tuning as well? you also brought up a good point...by the time i buy all of that stuff, i could have just got hondata and for a few buck more it'll be tuned to perfection...
UnderPressure
Spoolin'
wheres a good place to buy a hondata setup? directly from them?, i was also thinking, wouldn't a wideband and an afc be good enough and mabye adj. cam gears?....the car doesn't have to be altered that much to run boost.....mabye im wrong here?
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hondatec
New Member
all depends on the tuning...my boy right now is running a stock gs-r in a 95 civic with 12 lbs of boost only upgraded the fuel rail and has a uego with an safc to control it...last honda day he ran an 11.9 at 112 mph once again thats on a stock engine no sleeves or boring....nothin was done....cant express this enough it was stock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UnderPressure
Spoolin'
ya i know, im gonna go with a crome chip, guy i talked to that sells both hondata and crome says its only 75 and does everything ill need it to do for me so thats good, i can have my ecu shipped down chipped and sent back ready to tune in about 3 days so, i know plenty of people that dont have any computer mods and there cars run perfect, nothing built in the motor, off of fuel upgrades and an afc so, i guess its just everyone elses opinions so.............................thanks again for all of the info guys, and 11.9@112 would be perfect hahaha but 10 psi is "too much" for a stock ls motor? ive read in countless articles and from other places that 10 is safe, 12 is the limit, but like i said, not everyones cars act the same so mabye a few had bad luck but either way without a good tune and the right mods i wont get the full potential out of the kit so thanks for all the input again and keep posting any other ideas/experiences?..
UnderPressure
Spoolin'
whats that supposed to mean?..........