Tranny Swap or Beefed Up Torque Converter?

Charleetuner

New Member
I got a 96 RS Automatic and I've been reading about how easy tranny swaps are. I also read through some threads and learned about beefing up the torque converters in Automatics. Anybody got opinions or better yet experience on which is better? I've been wanting a 5 Speed but I am apt to go with the most cost effective route; but if it is all out better to go with a Manual then thats the way I'll go. A mechanic I know told me if I had all the parts he could get it done in a week for about $750.
 

LoweredDC4

Jimmy
I honestly think that whichever route you go is up to you. You can make amazing power with both an automatic and manual transmission...

b series trans can be found easily and are pretty cheap...

there is a thread on here with someone who has a built b20 that is automatic with a torque converter putting down some serious ponies.. i havent read the entire thread but you should give it a look if you havent already..

edit: not sure how much a beefier torque converter for an automatic b series trans would be though :(
i guess i wasnt really much help...

found the thread:
http://www.clubintegra.com/board/showthread.php?t=76656&highlight=automatic+b20
 
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Spawne32

Shut up baby, I know it!
LoweredDC4 said:
I honestly think that whichever route you go is up to you. You can make amazing power with both an automatic and manual transmission...

b series trans can be found easily and are pretty cheap...

there is a thread on here with someone who has a built b20 that is automatic with a torque converter putting down some serious ponies.. i havent read the entire thread but you should give it a look if you havent already..

edit: not sure how much a beefier torque converter for an automatic b series trans would be though :(
i guess i wasnt really much help...

found the thread:
http://www.clubintegra.com/board/showthread.php?t=76656&highlight=automatic+b20
Click to expand...
320 dollars shipped
 

mteg

Automatic Lover
First thing to clear up, you don't beef up you torque converter. If anything, it's weaker. What they do is essentially re machine it and shave some of the weight, along with changing a few things effecting the stall speed. This allows the tranny to engage faster thus shaving about 1/2sec off your qtr...which is actually a huge gain for an automatic. If anything, this mod adds more stress on the tranny. Now an easy cheap mod that I highly recommend to anyone with a auto is to add a tranny cooler. That will keep the temps down, and in conjunction with regular changing, will prolong your tranny for years. I'm now going on 11 years of DDing my auto teg and was making over 200whp on nitrous. No manual would have held that long without at least 2 clutch swaps. It's all how you take care of it. Aside from upgraded tc and tranny cooler...only thing I've done is one full flush at around 90k, and regular changes.

The difference between a flush and a change is that a flush cleans everything where changing the tranny the fluid only results in about 1/4 of the fluid being changed as the rest stays in the TC...but by doing it regularly, you keep cycling in new fluid.

http://www.levelten.com/Level_10_Acura_PTS_Bulletproof_Torque_Converter_p/acu-ja310-1000s.htm
 


Spawne32

Shut up baby, I know it!
mteg said:
First thing to clear up, you don't beef up you torque converter. If anything, it's weaker. What they do is essentially re machine it and shave some of the weight, along with changing a few things effecting the stall speed. This allows the tranny to engage faster thus shaving about 1/2sec off your qtr...which is actually a huge gain for an automatic. If anything, this mod adds more stress on the tranny. Now an easy cheap mod that I highly recommend to anyone with a auto is to add a tranny cooler. That will keep the temps down, and in conjunction with regular changing, will prolong your tranny for years. I'm now going on 11 years of DDing my auto teg and was making over 200whp on nitrous. No manual would have held that long without at least 2 clutch swaps. It's all how you take care of it. Aside from upgraded tc and tranny cooler...only thing I've done is one full flush at around 90k, and regular changes.

The difference between a flush and a change is that a flush cleans everything where changing the tranny the fluid only results in about 1/4 of the fluid being changed as the rest stays in the TC...but by doing it regularly, you keep cycling in new fluid.

http://www.levelten.com/Level_10_Acura_PTS_Bulletproof_Torque_Converter_p/acu-ja310-1000s.htm
Click to expand...
What a fuckin retard.
 

mteg

Automatic Lover
Do you care to elaborate? Let me rephrase it, your tc and tranny arent weaker per se...but the tranny is faced with higher stress levels than it was designed.
 

Spawne32

Shut up baby, I know it!
Ill give you some words of advice OP that will take you where you want if you decide to keep the auto. The biggest issue you will have is the fact that you are OBD2, which leaves you with limited tuning options. For the most part OBD2 honda's integrate the automatic trans programming with the ECU from 96 on. I was able to get away with this very easily because my transmission is controlled entirely separate from my ECU. This allowed us to edit the transmission and tune the engine without any worry that one program would overwrite the other. ECTUNE is the only program available for tuning that supports the torque converter lockup function which is a signal sent from the ECU.

Now, should you decide to keep the auto, the two biggest mods you can do is have the trans rebuilt with new clutches (preferably transstar or raybestos) and replace the torque converter with something purpose built. My torque converter you see in the pictures in the thread was built by precision of new hampton exclusively for use with my setup, and bench tested to verify its accuracy of performance. It is in no way "weaker" or will "damage" the transmission. If anything its 10x stronger then the stock converter, furnace brazed, 0 balanced, with a triple disc clutch for the TC lockup and a high performance stator. If you wanted to take it a step beyond that you can get anti balloon plates, hardened splines on the shaft and a multi roller sprag, but it will in no way hurt your car I can assure you of that.

Like i said the biggest challenge to overcome is the electronics, if you can figure that out, the automatic trans has plenty of options and is very stout compared to what the masses like to claim.

http://www.gopnh.com/Racing-Stall-Torque-Converters.cfm
 
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Spawne32

Shut up baby, I know it!
mteg said:
Do you care to elaborate? Let me rephrase it, your tc and tranny arent weaker per se...but the tranny is faced with higher stress levels than it was designed.
Click to expand...
Higher stress levels then it was designed? That is only dictated by the power of the engine. The torque converter merely dictates your stall speed and power loss through its design. The biggest downfall of the hondamatic transmission is its valve body, it shifts hard but lazy due to the high line pressure and overall poor design. Replacing the clutch packs and taking your trans to be rebuilt and modified at a competent transmission shop is merely all that is required to solve these issues. My valve body work was done by precision performance trans in south jersey, they basically built the shift kit from scratch to eliminate all the factory flaws associated with clutch slippage, which is what causes the bulk of the wear. Hondamatics are not a planetary gear set, all of the gears merely spin on shafts and engage via individual clutches, it doesnt even remotely resemble a domestic trans, thats what makes it more durable imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFXxMrfGyXk
 

Charleetuner

New Member
Thanks guys... As of now my RS has only simple bolt ons - I / H / E - and I can already feel a good amount of torque just from the butt dyno.. The tranny it has in it is the original and I can already feel it slipping so I am gonna need a new one fairly soon anyway. So now my question turns to simplicity and cost effectiveness. Can the automatic I have be rebuilt to suit more aggressive mods in the near future (i.e. port/polish, cams, valve job, with a possible VTEC conversion; for example) on a modest budget? Like I said; I know a guy willing to swap me to a manual for $750 plus parts and that, to me, is a pretty good deal. However, if its less complicated and more cost effective I'm thinking keep what I have, ya know?

I'm not big fan of automatics; but I do believe in making good use of what I have. In short, what's the financial damage look like for the tranny work suggested above?

Also, whatever route I end up taking, are there any major problems besides electrical to be aware of on either course, auto or manual?
 
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