Suspension Upgrade / Mainly Daily Driver

[cpeehler7]

Hello CI people! I've been researching away the past few weeks on what exactly I want to do to my 1998 Integra GSR's suspension. So far I think I have a decent setup picked out, but I'd love to hear some more experienced feedback on the topic. So as a little background, this is going to be mainly a daily driver, and will NOT be slammed. I plan on autocrossing occasionally, but this is not a dedicated racer. I will probably lower it a reasonable amount in the summer, and raise it back for the winter (live in WNY). This is going to be my first major project, and I'm looking forward to learning how to do a suspension. I'm long over due to get my hands dirty, and finally learn how to fix a car.

So my main focus now is, reliability first and foremost. Then performance/comfort. My budget is quite nice to work with, I want to stay around the $1400, but could squeeze a little more out $1600 being the max I can spend.

Here is a short list of what I intend to buy, and below a list of things I need to look at before I know if they need replacing. The prices I'm listing are all from the CI parts store, if there are cheaper places to go, or if I can buy from sponsor of someones I will do that as well.

-Function & Form Type 1 Coilovers -$630
-Function & Form Rear Lower Control Arms - $155
-Blox Racing Front/Rear Camber Kits -$263

**Parts I'm looking at possibly buying**
-Hardrace front lower control arms/bushings ~$205 / Or just the bushings which are ~$50. Not sure if I have the tools to put the bushings into my old control arms though.
-Tie Rod I haven't looked at my current Tie Rod, I do not know if it needs to be replaced. If it needs a new end on it, or if it's fine. I'd like to hear your opinions, you all have a lot more experience with this than I do, any bit of information is appreciated.

A side note, I'm not going to upgrade any subframe bracing/strut bars yet. I want to get the car running right before I do any of that. That is something I can worry about later, when I start to race again. My main concern now is that my from upper balljoints are in very bad condition. They are really the only part that "needs" to be replaced, but I figure if I'm going to do work on the car, why not go all out hahah? I believe the ball joints being bad is the main reason for there being a bit of play in the wheel / the wheel jerking around on rough roads.

So do you guys think this will be a reasonable budget minded suspension upgrade for a Daily Driver? If it were you would you change any of the parts I listed above? And one last question, what else should I be looking at? Am I forgetting any parts that I should be concerned about, considering the car is 15 years old?

Thank you guys in advance for any help you can give. Looking forward to learning more about my car, and hopefully getting it on the road in much better shape than it is now.

Christian.

 

[Murphy]

I'd replace all your bushings and tie rods first, that'll give you the most bang for your buck. Personally if I had $1500 to blow on a GSR, I'd dump it all on the engine.

 

[JDMxDB8]

For comfort, I wouldn't go with coilovers. I would opt for a lowering spring/performance shock setup like Eibach Pro-Kit/Koni Sport (Yellow) shocks.

 

[cpeehler7]

For comfort, I wouldn't go with coilovers. I would opt for a lowering spring/performance shock setup like Eibach Pro-Kit/Koni Sport (Yellow) shocks.

I prefer a stiffer ride to be honest. Also I was learning toward coilovers partly because I'd prefer to not have to worry about compressing springs etc. I've never done it before, and don't have the tools to do it. I'd like to just have something out of the box and ready to go.

The front upper control arms are really the only part that needs to get changed. Those balljoints are ruined, I'm sure the rear isn't much better, but if I buy the parts I listed above, they should all come with new bushings. That way I won't have to hack out the old ones, and replace them correct?

 

[OneFastGSR]

Since you mentioned you like to autocross and stuff like that. I'm not sure how function and forms will do you in racing. I've always seen them more as a street car coilover. I've never drove a car with a set though, Alot others on clubintegra have those and seem to like them so they must be pretty good. I have skunk 2 pro s-II on my civic hatchback and it's the best handling car i've ever driven. My integra has ASR swaybar,ASR subframe, ground control/koni coilovers, skunk2 camber kits, etc, and my civic only has skunk2 coilovers, no brand LCA's and subframe, and my civic corners far better than my integra (weird?). Alot of people on clubintegra say skunk2 is junk2 etc. But they make a damn good coilover imo. I'd suggest a set of skunk2 pro s-II or BC Racing coilovers have a great coilover that's fully rebuildable you can get custom spring rates etc for about $900 with 30 adjustments on compression/rebound etc. Heard tons of good reviews on BC racing. Buddy club N+ spec coilover is another option but also the most expensive option at about $900~ without upper mounts and $1100~ with? I'm sure Patrick (OGStackadolla) can answer any questions about those.

There's just too many brands with good quality coilovers you just have to select which one looks like they'll do the best for what you want. I daily drive my civic with skunk2's and it's a great ride, handles really well.

Lower control arms my favorite brands are Function 7(Favorite) because of the look, They have lifetime warranty on bushings which are energy suspension bushings, They're light and strong. Nick4dei brought up something about ASR lower control arms have the sway bar end link lower than normal for more swaybar/endlink combinations and for optimum swaybar geometry. So they might be even better. (I've not had a set).

Camber kits blox isn't my favorite brand, Alot of people had them with goodluck, lasting, etc and i'm sure they are good but I have no experience. I have skunk2 camber kits on my integra and they've done a great job. My brother had Hard race camber kits on his integra and I like the design of the hardrace front camber kit alot more than the skunk2/buddy club etc. If I were to buy camber kits again it would be hard race. (Probably what i'll buy for my civic)

Overall depending on what combinations you went with all of those would land you under your target budget, (Not sure about buddy club coilovers they might be on your limit). All of this is personal opinion and experience.

Going to add a new front lower control arm that is very interesting, Suppose to reduce weight by 3 pounds on each side, Poly urethane bushings, etc. They just released and basically have no reviews yet so I have no idea whether they are good or not and have 0 experience. Daddybuiltracing just bought a set for his integra and he should have a review later on whenever he gets to drive with them for a bit.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=3174442 (Link to front control arms I mentioned above)

 

[2kdb7]

Man those are some long posts lol. A friend of mine had f&f type 2 and there are pretty sweet lots of settings from super squishy to destroy your kidneys. Most common answer on here is koni yellows and gc coilovers. Simple and clean. I also recommend energy suspension master bushing kit.

 

[cpeehler7]

@OneFastGSR - I will look into that lower control arm more. Seems to be quite a solid part at a good price. I'll check the internet for reviews of it. Thanks a lot. The reason I wanted to go with the F&F coilover was because I've read on here and team-integra, that the performance is similar to the Skunk2 Pro-S II, but more comfortable for regular driving. The Pro-S was one I was looking at though, I may have to reconsider it. It is also $100 more.

The main reason I thought the Blox camber kits would be alright for me, is because I'm going to keep a stock camber. A lot of guys I've heard from said, if you're not going to slam your car, you probably don't need to drop a ton of money on Skunk2 cam kits. I've heard a lot of people had good results with the blox camber kits, but their lower control arms were a little hit or miss.

Man those are some long posts lol. A friend of mine had f&f type 2 and there are pretty sweet lots of settings from super squishy to destroy your kidneys. Most common answer on here is koni yellows and gc coilovers. Simple and clean. I also recommend energy suspension master bushing kit.

One quick question for you, since this is the first time I'll be really getting into the suspension on my Integra. My understanding is that most of my parts will come with new bushings already in them. Are there other bushings I should be replacing? Or if I purchase new parts with bushings installed, will I have replaced everything I need?

I have a feeling I'm going to have to also replace the tie rod and CV axle, or at least replace the ends of them. So I'm keeping that in mind with my budget also. The main reason I'm justifying spending so much money on my car is, that the University I go to ends up costing about $100 a day...And I don't learn anything useful there, I'm just there to get a piece of paper...So I feel like doing this will end up teaching me more useful skills than my 3 years of college, and it's quite a lot cheaper! hahaha.

Thank you guys for all this information, I appreciate it. I'm looking to start ordering parts within the next month. It's finally starting to warm up again. I'm sort of waiting for there to not be a sheet of ice in my driveway to work on it.

 

[OneFastGSR]

@OneFastGSR - I will look into that lower control arm more. Seems to be quite a solid part at a good price. I'll check the internet for reviews of it. Thanks a lot. The reason I wanted to go with the F&F coilover was because I've read on here and team-integra, that the performance is similar to the Skunk2 Pro-S II, but more comfortable for regular driving. The Pro-S was one I was looking at though, I may have to reconsider it. It is also $100 more.

The main reason I thought the Blox camber kits would be alright for me, is because I'm going to keep a stock camber. A lot of guys I've heard from said, if you're not going to slam your car, you probably don't need to drop a ton of money on Skunk2 cam kits. I've heard a lot of people had good results with the blox camber kits, but their lower control arms were a little hit or miss.



One quick question for you, since this is the first time I'll be really getting into the suspension on my Integra. My understanding is that most of my parts will come with new bushings already in them. Are there other bushings I should be replacing? Or if I purchase new parts with bushings installed, will I have replaced everything I need?

I have a feeling I'm going to have to also replace the tie rod and CV axle, or at least replace the ends of them. So I'm keeping that in mind with my budget also. The main reason I'm justifying spending so much money on my car is, that the University I go to ends up costing about $100 a day...And I don't learn anything useful there, I'm just there to get a piece of paper...So I feel like doing this will end up teaching me more useful skills than my 3 years of college, and it's quite a lot cheaper! hahaha.

Thank you guys for all this information, I appreciate it. I'm looking to start ordering parts within the next month. It's finally starting to warm up again. I'm sort of waiting for there to not be a sheet of ice in my driveway to work on it.

I don't know anything about blox camber kits, Havn't read anything or personally experienced them or seen in person. Hard race camber kits would run you about $300 shipped for front and rear from jhpusa.com or someone similar. But i'll guaranteed when you pull them out the box you can tell it's a good quality product. That's what i'll be getting for my civic when it's time. The pro-s II's are definately a great coilover. Wouldn't swap them for anything in a similar price range. Only way i'd take them off my civic is if I was getting like $1500+ coilovers to replace them which would be a whole other level.

From jhpusa.com you can get
Skunk2 Pro S II V2 full coilover - $720
Hardrace front camber kit - $190
Hardrace Rear Camber kit - $110
Function 7 LCA - $233
Also hardrace makes a OE spec inner tie rod, Which is also on jhpusa for $70.
LCA bushings for front - $50
$25 press out/in new bushings
Puts a total at $1398.

That's what I would go with, My opinion on parts. But that should give you an idea of what you can do with that budget, Those are all prices from jhpusa.com you can even shop around might find parts cheaper.

Any shop with a press should me able to press out the old bushings and stuff on your control arms if you just took them off and brought them in, Shouldn't cost much at all. Should be no way of paying over $25 for that. Or even $10-$20 to press out the old bushings than you can install the new ones yourself possibly

 

[cpeehler7]

I may be doing a TSD Rally tomorrow afternoon, I know a lot of the guys have shops. They'd probably be willing to help another SCCA guy out for a reasonable price. I'll check my current front LCA, I'm sure it's in fine shape but needs bushings. That would save me enough money to upgrade other parts. The only issue I see is possibly having more downtime for my car. The hardrace cam kit might be something worth upgrading to, they're not much more expensive than the blox.

What brand bushings for the LCA would you suggest? I know a lot of people say the ES bushings, but would the hardrace be better for general purposes. Do you think the rubber would be more reliable? I really aught to talk to some of the guys I rallied with, I know they've done their fair share of suspensions. The main thing I'm nervous about is getting it done, but not completely correct. Maybe sort of screwing the bushings up causing them to wear out. Or improperly preloading it etc...

I may have to get the Skunk2 Coilovers now as well. They sound great. How easy are they to setup? From the video I watched they seemed extremely straight forward. I'm looking to just run maybe an inch or two lower than stock height at most. I don't think I'll have to do too much tweaking.

 

[OneFastGSR]

I would go with energy suspension bushings, They're known to be good and they're a huge brand for bushings, Same company function 7 uses for lca bushings etc. So i'd go with them. Once your old bushings are out install shouldn't be difficult. Put the new bushings in the freezer for alittle bit and the bushings should actually shrink just a tad, Maybe not noticeable but it should definately help. Than just lube up the control arm/bushings and install. Skunk2's are straight forward install, Install the coilovers set the ride height the same on all corners and if it's to high or to low to your liking than you can raise or lower the car in about 15-20 minutes. It's really easy to do

 

[cpeehler7]

Yeah, I think I'll give removing the bushings a shot. I do have some tools in my fathers wood shop that I've seen other people use to get them out. If it doesn't work I'll take it to a shop.

You've convinced me on the Skunk2 Pro-S II coilovers and the F7 rear lca. I think I'm still going to grab the blox camber kits though. They're about $20 off in the CI parts store, and I've heard from several people that they work fine for people who don't slam their cars.

So I'm looking at this setup now.

Skunk2 Pro-S II Coilovers -Ordered
Blox Front/Rear Cam kits - Ordered ** Buddy Club P1 Front/Rear Blox was out of order
F7 rear LCA
ES front LCA bushings
Front Lower ball joint (probably going to be the hardest part to replace)
and possibly hard race inner tie rod. I don't know what shape my tie rod is in, I imagine after 150,000 miles it should get replaced if I'm already doing all this.

Are there any brands to look at for the front lower ball joint? I looked up some tutorials for it, and I swear that's going to be the hardest part of the build haha.

 

[OneFastGSR]

I don't really know any particular stock replacement ball joints, My best guess would be just goto honda and get oem or any parts store for a replacement, They do make extended ball joints which i've heard good reviews from some people and bad reviews from others, Buddy club, blox, hard race, etc, all make extended ball joints and price ranges anywhere from $100-$200. There's a pretty good thread on honda-tech about extended ball joints, Basically what they're trying to say is whenever you get extended ball joints it raises the roll center and the tie rod doesn't allign with the upper/lower control arm properly and you lose grip and bump steer from doing so. Here's the thread they got tons of graphs etc. I'd stick with oem or replacement http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=3009020

 

[cpeehler7]

Well the Blox was out of order, so I switched to Buddy Club P1 front/rear. They gave me a few bucks off, and they weren't much more than the Blox would have been. Looked them up and they have some good reviews, better than the Blox in general, so I'm pretty happy with that. Now I just need to order the rest of the stuff...

 

[dlo253]

So many long posts. Sorry if its been covered. I would stay away from F&F and Blox, they are pretty much garbage if you talk to anybody who really knows what they are talking about. .. Koni/GC setup is the best bang for the buck. I saw you mention spring compressors, that won't be needed with a koni GC setup. That is hands down the best you can get in your budget. And the best part is they both come with a lifetime warranty.

 

[cpeehler7]

So many long posts. Sorry if its been covered. I would stay away from F&F and Blox, they are pretty much garbage if you talk to anybody who really knows what they are talking about. .. Koni/GC setup is the best bang for the buck. I saw you mention spring compressors, that won't be needed with a koni GC setup. That is hands down the best you can get in your budget. And the best part is they both come with a lifetime warranty.

Well luckily I bought neither of them haha. I ended up getting Skunk2 Pro-S II coilovers, and a set of Buddy Club P1 camber kits. The Koni was a little out of my budget to be honest. Also my car was only $3,000, the suspension has 150600 on it, so at this point even an absolute trash ebay kit would probably be a step up hahah. So for my purposes I think the skunk2 and buddy club should do alright.

At this point I think the quality of the ride, and the longevity of the parts is going to be mostly dependent on my skills as a mechanic...I'm a little nervous about that aspect of the build hahah. Thanks for the advice though, btw, what are your thoughts on the Function7 LCA and ES bushings? I assume those are the top of the line parts from everything said above, and what I've read on here.