Why is Chrome better then Hondata
- Thread starter Aussie
- Start date
BrokenTalon27
W.F.O
Crome is more grassroots tuning than Hondata. A lot of people like Crome because it is free to download the program, as opposed to Hondata which is pricey in comparison.
GreenTeggy
My name is Ben
NOPE! just price and opinion or preference!
TeggyBear_Ls
90 EF LS/V 95 DC4
if anything Hondata has more stuff.
Hondata has launch control.
Hondata has launch control.
ShinsenTuner
New and fresh.
Both have it's ups and downs... Hondata is really nice if you have the money, Chrome is good enough if you're just on a budget.
acclude
cheap bastard
LOL I wonder who this thread was intended for 8)
Tuning is tuning. There are all kinds of tools available to get the job done and each person has their own preferences and those preferences are based on their tuning experiences.
Also, one thing that EVERYONE needs to take into consideration....who's going to do the tuning? If you are, then I suggest playing with the grassroots DIY options first to get a hang of it because experience is valuable and this is the most cost effective way to get that experience. If you ARE NOT doing the tuning, then you need to find a tuner that you TRUST and find out what software THEY prefer tuning with and that's what you need to get.
My issues are with the company Hondata and the effect it has on the DIY tuning community. Not necessarily the product itself.
Here's my list of reasons why I don't like Hondata:
1. It breeds ignorance in the tuning community. The average Hondata owner knows nothing about tuning and relies on a certified Hondata tuner for all of their engine management needs. They don't learn as much and don't understand the actual various engine running conditions based on external conditions.
2. Price. For what you pay, you can accomplish all the same thing as far as HP and TQ #'s with a DIY tuning program and have more money to put into parts for your engine or other places where it will make a difference.
3. Hondata cares more about their $ than they do the average user. Dave Blundar, the originator of www.pgmfi.org and grandfather to the DIY Honda tuning community got sued by Hondata because someone reverse engineered Hondata K-Pro and posted the code on pgmfi.org. As any forum owner or anyone with common sense knows, what the members of your forum do is not equivalent to what you (the forum owner) would do and a public forum is a public forum. He even publicly made it known that he did not want stuff like that being posted long before the whole incident happened. The whole point of prmfi.org was to create new and better ways to tune than to be stuck with limited, pricey tuning choices. Anyways, here's more info on that before I move on to other reasons Hondata is a big monkey ball sucking whore.
Quoted from dave:
4. Basically anything that can be disabled in Hondata (narrowband O2's, knock sensor, IACV, etc.) can also be disabled with Crome. Any "special" features that Hondata has (FTL, gear correction, PWM functionality for boost controllers, ect.) can also be done with Crome. Hondata is really not nicer or more feature rich than Crome so I can't justify the higher price myself.
Here is my reasons why I do like Hondata:
1. OBD2A and OBD2B ECU support and support for the F series S2k and K series motors.
Tuning is tuning. There are all kinds of tools available to get the job done and each person has their own preferences and those preferences are based on their tuning experiences.
Also, one thing that EVERYONE needs to take into consideration....who's going to do the tuning? If you are, then I suggest playing with the grassroots DIY options first to get a hang of it because experience is valuable and this is the most cost effective way to get that experience. If you ARE NOT doing the tuning, then you need to find a tuner that you TRUST and find out what software THEY prefer tuning with and that's what you need to get.
My issues are with the company Hondata and the effect it has on the DIY tuning community. Not necessarily the product itself.
Here's my list of reasons why I don't like Hondata:
1. It breeds ignorance in the tuning community. The average Hondata owner knows nothing about tuning and relies on a certified Hondata tuner for all of their engine management needs. They don't learn as much and don't understand the actual various engine running conditions based on external conditions.
2. Price. For what you pay, you can accomplish all the same thing as far as HP and TQ #'s with a DIY tuning program and have more money to put into parts for your engine or other places where it will make a difference.
3. Hondata cares more about their $ than they do the average user. Dave Blundar, the originator of www.pgmfi.org and grandfather to the DIY Honda tuning community got sued by Hondata because someone reverse engineered Hondata K-Pro and posted the code on pgmfi.org. As any forum owner or anyone with common sense knows, what the members of your forum do is not equivalent to what you (the forum owner) would do and a public forum is a public forum. He even publicly made it known that he did not want stuff like that being posted long before the whole incident happened. The whole point of prmfi.org was to create new and better ways to tune than to be stuck with limited, pricey tuning choices. Anyways, here's more info on that before I move on to other reasons Hondata is a big monkey ball sucking whore.
Quoted from dave:
You can do a google search on this and find all kinds of other info. It's basically the equivalent of Honda suing Hondata , Crome, Neptune, etc. for altering the original code which would never happen because Honda has their shit together while Hondata is just a bunch of donkey ball licking pig fuckers. If Hondata was on top of their stuff, they would be pursuing the guy who cracked the Hondata code and posted the K-Pro program in the first place. Instead, they created an all out war against the DIY grassroots community and I know which side I stand on.
4. Basically anything that can be disabled in Hondata (narrowband O2's, knock sensor, IACV, etc.) can also be disabled with Crome. Any "special" features that Hondata has (FTL, gear correction, PWM functionality for boost controllers, ect.) can also be done with Crome. Hondata is really not nicer or more feature rich than Crome so I can't justify the higher price myself.
Here is my reasons why I do like Hondata:
1. OBD2A and OBD2B ECU support and support for the F series S2k and K series motors.
acclude
cheap bastard
Here is my reasons why I don't like Crome:
1. This may seem weird, but I'm adding this as one thing I don't like and one thing I like at the same time. Crome is free, but does not allow for datalogging unless you purchase the Pro version for $150. I personally feel that the $150 is well worth it considering you only have invested $20 in chipping the ECU in the first place so $170 is still much cheaper than the price tag of Hondata. You could use ECU Control for free datalogging and use the free version of Crome until you get used to tuning and then you'll see why the pro version is worth the $150. Crome is the first DIY tuning program to start actually charging instead of just taking donations, but it is also the most advanced "free" DIY software out there so I can't complain. Nevertheless, I'm adding this as one strike against Crome.
2. I'm also adding this as one thing I don't like and one thing I like at the same time. It has "plug-ins". The bad part of this is that it can be confusing for new users to understand the plug-ins and how to use them properly. A lot of the advanced features are plug-ins that you have to enable and then setup to be able to use the features.
Here's my reasons why I like Crome:
1. It is free to use and you don't have to pay a "per car license" fee to use it. As mentioned, datalogging is disabled in the free version but can be enable for $150 which is well worth it in my opinion. You do have other free datalogging options avalable anyways.
2. It has "plug-ins". Anyone can write a new plug-in for it that provides more features and share it with the tuning community. You can add or take away plug-ins as you desire based on what you prefer. It basically makes future updates and capabilities endless as long as the Honda ECU's have the capability to physically execute the code.
3. The "auto tune" feature. With a wideband, you can enable the auto tune feature that will automatically adjust the fuel tables to get close to your desired a/f ratio whithout you having to actually adjust the map. It's not perfect, but ti can save you some serious time if you're trying to tune a basemap that's way off. It will at least get you close to your desired values and then you can fine tune by hand from there. Pretty cool feature!
4. RTP and emulation. Allows you to use things like the Ostrich and the new Demon (way better than the S300 in my opinion) to make changes to the engine in real time while the engine is running! You can actually tune with the motor running saving all kinds of time. Once you get it tuned, then you just burn the chip once and you're done....or leave the Ostrich/Demon in there so you don't have to burn a chip. Make plugging into a laptop and tuning on the fly a breeze and for much less than any Hondata product.
5. A majority of the Crome owners do their own tuning and pass on the knowledge to others. Instead of breeding ignorance, it tends to breed future Honda tuners. The friendly and knowledge support of the pgmfi.org community is well worth any kind of price you have to pay because you would never get half as much from Hondata. You can actually chat directly with the developer of Crome (John Cui) if you want to. Even still, Crome is and forever will be cheaper than Hondata.
There's more but I already exceeded the 10,000 word limit per post so I'll leave it at that for now. Again, I cannot stress this enough.... IF YOU ARE DOING YOUR OWN TUNING, I SUGGEST GOING THE DIY ROUTE WITH CROME OR SOMETHING SIMILAR. IF YOU ARE HAVING SOMEONE TUNE FOR YOU THEY BUY WHATEVER THEY PREFER TO USE.
1. This may seem weird, but I'm adding this as one thing I don't like and one thing I like at the same time. Crome is free, but does not allow for datalogging unless you purchase the Pro version for $150. I personally feel that the $150 is well worth it considering you only have invested $20 in chipping the ECU in the first place so $170 is still much cheaper than the price tag of Hondata. You could use ECU Control for free datalogging and use the free version of Crome until you get used to tuning and then you'll see why the pro version is worth the $150. Crome is the first DIY tuning program to start actually charging instead of just taking donations, but it is also the most advanced "free" DIY software out there so I can't complain. Nevertheless, I'm adding this as one strike against Crome.
2. I'm also adding this as one thing I don't like and one thing I like at the same time. It has "plug-ins". The bad part of this is that it can be confusing for new users to understand the plug-ins and how to use them properly. A lot of the advanced features are plug-ins that you have to enable and then setup to be able to use the features.
Here's my reasons why I like Crome:
1. It is free to use and you don't have to pay a "per car license" fee to use it. As mentioned, datalogging is disabled in the free version but can be enable for $150 which is well worth it in my opinion. You do have other free datalogging options avalable anyways.
2. It has "plug-ins". Anyone can write a new plug-in for it that provides more features and share it with the tuning community. You can add or take away plug-ins as you desire based on what you prefer. It basically makes future updates and capabilities endless as long as the Honda ECU's have the capability to physically execute the code.
3. The "auto tune" feature. With a wideband, you can enable the auto tune feature that will automatically adjust the fuel tables to get close to your desired a/f ratio whithout you having to actually adjust the map. It's not perfect, but ti can save you some serious time if you're trying to tune a basemap that's way off. It will at least get you close to your desired values and then you can fine tune by hand from there. Pretty cool feature!
4. RTP and emulation. Allows you to use things like the Ostrich and the new Demon (way better than the S300 in my opinion) to make changes to the engine in real time while the engine is running! You can actually tune with the motor running saving all kinds of time. Once you get it tuned, then you just burn the chip once and you're done....or leave the Ostrich/Demon in there so you don't have to burn a chip. Make plugging into a laptop and tuning on the fly a breeze and for much less than any Hondata product.
5. A majority of the Crome owners do their own tuning and pass on the knowledge to others. Instead of breeding ignorance, it tends to breed future Honda tuners. The friendly and knowledge support of the pgmfi.org community is well worth any kind of price you have to pay because you would never get half as much from Hondata. You can actually chat directly with the developer of Crome (John Cui) if you want to. Even still, Crome is and forever will be cheaper than Hondata.
There's more but I already exceeded the 10,000 word limit per post so I'll leave it at that for now. Again, I cannot stress this enough.... IF YOU ARE DOING YOUR OWN TUNING, I SUGGEST GOING THE DIY ROUTE WITH CROME OR SOMETHING SIMILAR. IF YOU ARE HAVING SOMEONE TUNE FOR YOU THEY BUY WHATEVER THEY PREFER TO USE.
Aussie
Zoom-Zoom
All that stuff you listed is easily capable with Hondata. A lot more too.
Here's some personal experience with professional tuners I know that have used Chrome in the past. This isn't googled by the way.
-Tuners have complained about start up problems
-It is notorious for having bugs in it's programming
-It has been know to not be able to provide a smooth idle
-Part throttle tuning also has plenty of problems to gripe about
I'm sorry but Chrome is a half assed program. For the money it's fine but most people that do a lot of Honda tuning will most likely agree that Hondata and Neptune RTP are far better programs.
When I spend 8k dollars on my motor I don't have a problem spending another 600 for a tuning system that runs flawlessly.
And your complaints about them protecting their business and charging too much. It's Capitalism dude. If you don't want to pay the price buy something else. They have better shit, you pay more money, it's how things work.
Also Hondata is a do-it-yourself program and I know plenty of people who take their cars to tuners and have them put chrome on it. Mostly because they're cheap and can't afford Hondata or Neptune RTP.
Here's some personal experience with professional tuners I know that have used Chrome in the past. This isn't googled by the way.
-Tuners have complained about start up problems
-It is notorious for having bugs in it's programming
-It has been know to not be able to provide a smooth idle
-Part throttle tuning also has plenty of problems to gripe about
I'm sorry but Chrome is a half assed program. For the money it's fine but most people that do a lot of Honda tuning will most likely agree that Hondata and Neptune RTP are far better programs.
When I spend 8k dollars on my motor I don't have a problem spending another 600 for a tuning system that runs flawlessly.
And your complaints about them protecting their business and charging too much. It's Capitalism dude. If you don't want to pay the price buy something else. They have better shit, you pay more money, it's how things work.
Also Hondata is a do-it-yourself program and I know plenty of people who take their cars to tuners and have them put chrome on it. Mostly because they're cheap and can't afford Hondata or Neptune RTP.
Ominous G2
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
Fuck em both, I'm going with Neptune.