2.0L 200hp i-VTEC RSX > 1.8L 142hp non-VTEC/VTEC Integra ?

01TegLuv

New Member
No, it is not the same and it is not a matter of just tuning. The Base and Type S i-VTEC systems are vastly different. You will have to pay extra for a Type S as well, just as you would to get a GSR instead on an LS.

I'm not incenuating that a B18B1 or K20A3 doesn't have potential. They have plenty depending on what you want to do with it. I'm just saying that the i-VTEC in the base does not serve the same function as it does in a Type S.
Ok, ok i got you. fine, you got a point, i accept what you state.

but STILL cant i just tune the base K20 ..?

VTEC cant be activated in a VTEC way through programming..? the ecu cant tell the valves to open higher and stay that way longer through computer programming??
 

01TegLuv

New Member
looking for a Type S would be like looking for another GS-R ...

i understand that the GSR's Type R's , anything with R's and S's are always better. but they're all tunable, i want go with a base I think..

im already working with an LS n think it would be a step up, plus i like the car... the integra im in love with but its a small little car.

i want something a little bigger.
 

DeAngebro

Foster
Just like muckman said, the base rsx and an ls are equally as fast because the ls is lighter than the rsx. The type s and a gsr are equally as fast because the gsr is lighter.
 

01TegLuv

New Member
Just like muckman said, the base rsx and an ls are equally as fast because the ls is lighter than the rsx. The type s and a gsr are equally as fast because the gsr is lighter.
you're talking stock for stock though...

i plan to boost n tune...
 


dopematic

New Member
looking for a Type S would be like looking for another GS-R ...

i understand that the GSR's Type R's , anything with R's and S's are always better. but they're all tunable, i want go with a base I think..

im already working with an LS n think it would be a step up, plus i like the car... the integra im in love with but its a small little car.

i want something a little bigger.
Actually although the rsx may seem like its bigger overall outside. The cabin space is actually smaller than the dcs and DAs.

It is a tad bit more modern though with the wider mirror defrosters and automatic temperature control.

the dc5s handle just as great, but I still prefer the double wish bone suspension our dcs have compare to the macphearson.

Imo, it would be better to look for a type s. Particularly the 05+ type s because that motor is a lot stronger. Just saying cause you'll be at an disadvantage just like you would from with a ls compared to a Gsr.
 

Muckman

Not a M0derator
The orginal question has gotten lost in the clutter.
If you can afford a new RSX and a turbo kit - GREAT
If the question is which platform can make more power on a STOCK engine (LS or K20A3) the answer is the K20.
However if building the engine, then the sky is the limit.
Just get the RSX since its clear you want it.
 


NemesisCBR

Boredest Member
Id say his budget is the limit.


Let me refer you to your own posts in [ls vs gsr] thread where you so vigorously back the potential of a ls. Quite the 180 i would think. I'll touch on a few points here. Nearly all your comments made about the rsx strictly applies to the type s and its not a little more power, its a lot more power. In stock form the base rsx isnt even worth talking about. With enough modifications it can actually put out some impressive numbers but then we run full circle again with the quantity of mods needed to make it worthwhile or the cost. Shall we discuss displacement again? A gsr will still beat a base rsx. This is how you need to see base vs type s, the gap is LS to type r not LS to gsr.
 

01TegLuv

New Member
Actually although the rsx may seem like its bigger overall outside. The cabin space is actually smaller than the dcs and DAs.

It is a tad bit more modern though with the wider mirror defrosters and automatic temperature control.

the dc5s handle just as great, but I still prefer the double wish bone suspension our dcs have compare to the macphearson.

Imo, it would be better to look for a type s. Particularly the 05+ type s because that motor is a lot stronger. Just saying cause you'll be at an disadvantage just like you would from with a ls compared to a Gsr.
i dont know about you, but ive owned and driven integra for years, and ive test driven several rsx's all models and years at the dealership i worked at. the cabin space is bigger than the integra's 3rd gen. rear space and front room. the dashboard is nice, only thing is the steering, the wheel is smaller but the steering is very hard compared to 3rd gen big steering wheel and smooth steering.
 

01TegLuv

New Member
Id say his budget is the limit.


Let me refer you to your own posts in [ls vs gsr] thread where you so vigorously back the potential of a ls. Quite the 180 i would think. I'll touch on a few points here. Nearly all your comments made about the rsx strictly applies to the type s and its not a little more power, its a lot more power. In stock form the base rsx isnt even worth talking about. With enough modifications it can actually put out some impressive numbers but then we run full circle again with the quantity of mods needed to make it worthwhile or the cost. Shall we discuss displacement again? A gsr will still beat a base rsx. This is how you need to see base vs type s, the gap is LS to type r not LS to gsr.
youre like this annoying gnat that wont buzz of my shoulder. bringing up other posts. i think you need to re-read you missed the point. I'm not even considering a gsr or type s.. read! and because i didnt answer to your ridiculous posts and continuing pointless argument does not mean i agree with them or you've won it. nerve to call me a 5yr old kid smh. dude.. you're still only with the mentale, the best is only the best. i might just stick w my ls build. thanks guys.
 

JemmieN

not a girl lol
dude do whatever your budget allows. seems like you really want a RSX so get one

personally i don' t like the way the DC5s look
 

NemesisCBR

Boredest Member
I've got the nerve cus I laugh at all the poor or lack of logic you apply in a lot I statements you make. I didn't call you a 5 year old kid. I said you argue like one. Clearly you don't get the points I made tryin to help you understand the differences and are stuck in your own mentality and opinions based on poorly gathered information. Why don't you stop creating discussions if you're just gonna dispute the information people provide you and hold your ground. You apparently understand so much about tuning and potential. Im at a loss to why you need any help. You state you worked at a dealer for years and that means you know the Rsx and your car fairly well. I am confuse sir.

Again you don't understand. Salesman don't need comprehension to sell cars, I get that. I didn't suggest a Gsr for purchase. I was correcting your comparison levels and you have mentioned the type s. So it's valid yet I wasn't tellin you to buy that either. You didn't respond to the other thread because you have nothing to rebuttle that would make any sense. I refuted everything you said. You've been given good advice in this thread. Maybe you can decipher it and make an educated decision.
 
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No, it is not the same and it is not a matter of just tuning. The Base and Type S i-VTEC systems are vastly different. You will have to pay extra for a Type S as well, just as you would to get a GSR instead on an LS.

I'm not incenuating that a B18B1 or K20A3 doesn't have potential. They have plenty depending on what you want to do with it. I'm just saying that the i-VTEC in the base does not serve the same function as it does in a Type S.
What Kyle is trying to get across is that the RSX base model comes with a K20a3(same as the EP3). The K20a3 has 2 rocker iVtec as he described. The RSX S has a K20a2 that has 3 rocker iVtec(essentially the same as Bseries Vtec but with VTC added). The power outputs these motors are capable of is much different. 2 rocker Vtec is what is used in the old D series as well as today's CRVs and some Accords. 3 rocker iVtec is the descendant of the 3 rocker Vtec system used in the Bseries and C series motors. If you look at the valvetrains side by side you will see they are distinct of each other.
 

Death-the-Kid

anta honma ni shinude
No, it is not the same and it is not a matter of just tuning. The Base and Type S i-VTEC systems are vastly different. You will have to pay extra for a Type S as well, just as you would to get a GSR instead on an LS.

I'm not incenuating that a B18B1 or K20A3 doesn't have potential. They have plenty depending on what you want to do with it. I'm just saying that the i-VTEC in the base does not serve the same function as it does in a Type S.
they don't get it bro lol

sigh....for the noobs

Ok, ok i got you. fine, you got a point, i accept what you state.

but STILL cant i just tune the base K20 ..?


VTEC cant be activated in a VTEC way through programming..
? the ecu cant tell the valves to open higher and stay that way longer through computer programming??
No........ completely different head..... and different pistons as well.... if they could do that the k20a3 wouldn't be viewed as the piece of junk that it is


The K20A3 does not have a standard DOHC VTEC valvetrain as we know it from the B-series engines - the K20A3 should actually be called a "DOHC i-VTEC-E" engine, because it uses a VTEC-E cam setup. The K20A2 is the "real" DOHC i-VTEC engine, utilizing the standard DOHC VTEC cam setup we're all familiar with. To help you understand the differences between the K20A2 and K20A3 engines, I've included the following information from a post I made elsewhere:

Allow me to evaluate. Let's start out by defining some terms:

VTEC - Variable valve Timing and lift Electronic Control. At low RPM, a VTEC engine uses a normal cam profile to retain a smooth idle, good fuel economy, and good low-end power delivery. The VTEC mechanism engages a high-lift, long-duration "race" cam profile at a set RPM value (i.e., ~5500RPM on the B16A) to increase high-end power delivery.

VTEC-E - Variable valve Timing and lift Electronic Control for Efficiency. This system isn't really VTEC as we know it. At low RPM, the VTEC-E mechanism effectively forces the engine to operate as a 12-valve engine - one of the intake valves does not open fully, thus decreasing fuel consumption. At a set RPM value (i.e., ~2500RPM in the D16Y5), the VTEC-E mechanism engages the 2nd intake valve, effectively resuming operation as a normal 16-valve engine. Note: in a VTEC-E engine, there are no high-RPM performance cam profiles; this engine is supposed to be tuned for fuel economy, right?

VTC - Variable Timing Control. This is a mechanism attached to the end of the intake camshaft only which acts as a continuously variable cam gear - it automatically adjusts the overlap between the intake and exhaust cams, effectively allowing the engine to have the most ideal amount of valve overlap in all RPM ranges. VTC is active at all RPMs.

i-VTEC - intelligent Variable valve Timing and lift Electronic Control. This is a combination of both the VTEC and the VTC technologies - in other words, i-VTEC = VTEC + VTC. Currently, the only engines that use the i-VTEC system are the DOHC K-series engines.

Now this is where things get tricky - Honda uses the term "DOHC i-VTEC" for two different systems: The first system is used in the K20A2 engine of the RSX Type-S. The second system is used in the K20A3 engine of the Civic Si.

The First System (K20A2):

This system is pretty close to the older DOHC VTEC engines. At low RPM, the K20A2 uses a normal cam profile to retain a smooth idle, good fuel economy, and good low-end power delivery. At 5800RPM, its VTEC mechanism engages a high-lift, long-duration "race" cam profile to increase high-end power delivery. The only difference between this i-VTEC engine and the older VTEC engines is the addition of the VTC system. The intake camshaft has the automatic self-adjusting cam gear which continuously optimizes valve overlap for all RPM ranges.

Here we see an image of the intake cam lobes of the K20A2. Notice there are 3 lobes; the two side lobes are the low-RPM profiles, and the center lobe is the high-lift, long-duration profile which engages at 5800RPM. Basically the same setup as the old VTEC engines we are familiar with.



Now here we see the VTC mechanism - the gear on the end of the intake cam that adjusts valve timing (overlap) automatically on the fly.



This system is used in engines powering the JDM Honda Integra Type-R, Civic Type-R, Accord Euro-R, and the USDM Acura RSX Type-S and TSX.

The Second System (K20A3):

This system does not really conform to the "DOHC i-VTEC" nomenclature, as Honda would like us to believe. As I mentioned in my previous post, it actually should be called "i-VTEC-E," because it uses a VTEC-E mechanism rather than a standard VTEC mechanism. At low RPM, the VTEC-E system effectively forces the engine to operate as a 12-valve engine - one of the intake valves does not open fully, thus decreasing fuel consumption. At 2200RPM, the VTEC-E system engages the 2nd intake valve, effectively resuming operation as a normal 16-valve engine. There are no high-RPM performance cam profiles; this engine is tuned to balance fuel economy and power, rather than provide pure performance. On the intake cam, there is the VTC mechanism which basically is an automatic self-adjusting cam gear used to continuously optimize the valve overlap for all RPM ranges. This being a VTEC-E system - and not a true DOHC VTEC system - is the reason the K20A3 redlines at a measly 6800RPM, while the K20A2 is able to rev all the way to 7900RPM.

Here we see an image of the intake cam lobes of the K20A3. Notice there are only 2 lobes - there is a nearly round one used only for the low-RPM disabled intake valve, and then there is the regular lobe used by the other valve at low-RPM and by both valves at high-RPM:



This system is used in engines powering the USDM Acura RSX base, Honda Civic Si, Accord 4-cylinder, CRV, and Element.

Special note: The K20A3 engine used in the Acura RSX base has a slightly different intake manifold design from the K20A3 engine used in the Civic Si. The RSX engine uses a dual-stage manifold, similar in concept to the manifold of the B18C1 in the old Integra GSR. It uses long intake runners at low-RPM to retain low end power, and switches at 4700RPM to a set of shorter intake runners to enhance high-end torque. This accounts for the extra 9 ft-lb of torque in the RSX (141 ft-lb, vs. 132 ft-lb in the Civic Si).

Here is an image showing just how this dual-stage manifold works. On the top, you can see the high-RPM (short) runners in use, and on the bottom, you can see the low-RPM (long) runners are in use.



Myths:

1. The i-VTEC engine engages VTEC gradually, and not suddenly like in the old VTEC engines.

Wrong. The i-VTEC engine "engages VTEC" at a single set RPM, like always. Whoever started this rumor is a f***tard. Read the definitions above.

2. VTC engages at a set RPM.

Wrong. VTC is always activated. Read under "VTC" above.

3. The K20A3 engages VTEC at 5000+ RPM.

Wrong. Technically, there is no "VTEC" (as we think of it) in the K20A3 engine - it uses a VTEC-E technology, which engages at 2200RPM. Read under "The Second Sytem" above.
 
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